Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#61

Post by ebg13 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

fandroid wrote: post #52

Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…

> since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time

Assuming for the moment that this is true...

Even something that is secretly lawful can be entirely immoral and only doable if kept hidden from the public who would otherwise object. The whistleblower's responsibility is to the public, not just their organizational superiors.

It's unhealthy to believe that the law dictates ethics.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#62

Post by solarkraft » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

0df8dkdf wrote: post #58

Semaphor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an easy PR win. The US behaves like a petulant child, and Russia can come off like the benevolent country protecting freedom. That seems like an extremely easy decision to make.

Pardon Snowden and Assange. Let all the dirt about all the high level people come out no matter how dark dirty or ugly they are, only then does US can start to establish some legitimacy on the world stage.

Something tells me that the high level people wouldn't like that.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#63

Post by duxup » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

classified wrote: post #40

The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.

I'm not convinced Russia has any allegiance to "the truth" outside of when it intersects what they happen to want to say at the moment.

I would consider Russia far more Orwellian than most nations. Comparisons like yours seem to ignore that fact.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#64

Post by class4behavior » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

seppin wrote: post #36

dirtnugget wrote: post #18

Is it still popular opinion that he seeked asylum in Russia? I feel most people don’t realize that he was on transit to Ecuador when the Russians told him passport had apparently been expired. He never planned to stay there.

Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.

It was a consulate, you genius, and he spent several days there. He must be a moron if he expected that would stay secret.

You do realize especially with his situation, he had to cover all legal aspects. Anyone would visit the consulate before traveling to Russia, and he would, too, even if he didn't plan to leave the international zone.

Staying Russia wasn't his plan, but it was definitely an option as he must've known that he might get trapped in any country he crossed.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#65

Post by mikestew » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #30

jb1991 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely false. Look at Nixon.

I stand corrected...pardon me.

Still time to delete that erroneous comment should you so choose. Be advised, now that there are replies, that it will show as "[deleted]".

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#66

Post by buran77 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

seppin wrote: post #36

dirtnugget wrote: post #18

Is it still popular opinion that he seeked asylum in Russia? I feel most people don’t realize that he was on transit to Ecuador when the Russians told him passport had apparently been expired. He never planned to stay there.

Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.

Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and even US courts found the program he leaked from as being illegal?

You're trying to build a backstory for something using bits and pieces of disparate information when the most plausible explanation is that Snowden was probably well aware that his freedom and likely his life were in danger and sought assistance from wherever he could get it. Building a conspiracy theory on this scaffold is a cop-out. Anyone with enough power to keep Snowden safe is probably an enemy of the US.

As for Wikileaks being a Russian tool, would you have the same discrediting opinion about the outlets publishing info that Russia or China would rather keep secret? Or if the person who leaked some data about the Chinese ethnic cleansing program received assistance from the US?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#67

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

classified wrote: post #40

The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.

"Please don't fulminate."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Perhaps you don't owe massive fuckups better, but you owe this community better if you're posting here. We're trying for a different sort of conversation.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#68

Post by jsu32 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #7

Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.

If that was his intent:

Why not selectively publish only the parts about surveillance of US citizens?

Why publish details of how the US was dealing with adversaries like China?

From the looks of it, Snowden cared about getting famous more than any specific goal.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#69

Post by slg » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:36 PM UTC

tinus_hn wrote: post #22

The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?

I know almost no one on HN wants to hear anything bad about Snowden, but Greenwald has stated that Snowden has leaked some information out of self preservation. We can't rule out the fact that Snowden has given information to the Russian government.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150704033557/https://twitter.c...

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#70

Post by anonAndOn » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

classified wrote: post #40

The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.

He wasn't planning on Putin's hospitality as he was primarily trying to avoid US airspace but thanks to realpolitik, he has ended up enjoying some level of freedom and not mysteriously jumping from a window.