You have to wonder about the impact his revelations had on the Russian agents operating against the United States.
At minimum, permanent residency is a nice way to say "Thank you".
Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
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Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#92Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…
Had Snowden simply revealed unconstitutional domestic mass surveillance programs, he'd be labeled as a conspiracy theorist at best.
I imagine the data he took were to serve as proof of these governmental over-reaches. Nobody would've taken him seriously without solid proof.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#93The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?
The more unfaltering facts uncovered about US the better for Russia. They also like to point to US to justify actions within the country: COPM is justified by NSA surveillance. They see Snowden as their guy and protect him.
Snowden is against government surveillance. It's hard to argue he can be used to justify SORM.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.
Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and even US courts found the program he leaked from as being illegal? You're trying to build a backstory for something using bits and pieces of disparate information when the most plausible explanation is that Snowden was probably well aware that his freedom and likely his life were in danger and so…
> Does it really matter that Snowden received assistance from Russia considering the data he leaked was proven legitimate and courts even found the program he leaked from as being illegal?
One program he leaked was found to be illegal. 98% of what he leaked had nothing to do with domestic surveillance, wasn't illegal, and only was released to hurt US intel efforts and standing in the world. Which is why people view this as a Russian op from the start.
I get that you don't care about any of that, but perhaps insist on accuracy when discussing it?
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#95Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…
> Had Snowden simply revealed unconstitutional domestic mass surveillance programs, perhaps he could be pigeonholed as a whistleblower. Multiple former officials did this and society largely didn't believe them and didn't care. Thomas Drake, Bill Binney, and others came forward through the appropriate legal channels and lost their careers, faced prosecution, and absolutely nothing changed. Legally, you're technically…
Power vacuums get filled. NSA was largely torched to the ground. Good or bad, there was a counterbalance between big tech and the NSA that is now gone. SV snatched up the power.
Everyone connected to big tech, Graham and company, stood to gain immensely from Snowden's treason against his country. Naturally, "hero" is the word. I'd speculate that Snowden singlehandedly added trillions in value to big tech.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#96Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Kind of weird to say he "faced all the negative outcomes" when he fled the US to avoid the most major of the potential negative outcomes.
Blowing the whistle completely upended his life. Anyone in his shoes would've made the same decision to leave because being tried under the Espionage Act would've yielded a guaranteed life sentence. People have a right to flee tyranny, wherever it is.
Just like Chelsea Manning has and will continue to spend the rest of her life in prison?
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#98The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?
Presumably it applies a floor on what your life will be like if you whistleblow (or betray, depending on views) against the US, thereby encouraging more such actions.
Just part of normal spycraft then.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#99The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?
Snowden is "Exhibit A" for how the US is hypocritical about opposition to surveillance states. Any time the US wants to try to shame Russia at the UN Security Council, Putin can just put a picture of their newest Moscovite up on the projector.
Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency
#100The Greatest Country On Earth™ has its citizens flee to the Empire Of Evil™ just so they can speak a simple truth without being imprisoned or called a traitor. The incompetent bureaucrats in charge of Snowden's prosecution made him a martyr instead. Those people are massive fuckups even at playing bad guys and you trust them to operate an Orwellian surveillance and suppression system? Good luck with that.
I'm not convinced Russia has any allegiance to "the truth" outside of when it intersects what they happen to want to say at the moment. I would consider Russia far more Orwellian than most nations. Comparisons like yours seem to ignore that fact.
You're probably right, but if it takes two orwellian actors exposing the orwellian nature of one another to mitigate how much orwell we experience in the US and russians experience in Russia, I'd consider that a net win for civil liberties in both countries.