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Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

reuters.com

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Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#81

Post by save_ferris »

fandroid wrote: post #52

Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…

> Had Snowden simply revealed unconstitutional domestic mass surveillance programs, perhaps he could be pigeonholed as a whistleblower.

Multiple former officials did this and society largely didn't believe them and didn't care. Thomas Drake, Bill Binney, and others came forward through the appropriate legal channels and lost their careers, faced prosecution, and absolutely nothing changed.

Legally, you're technically correct. Snowden is a fugitive. That doesn't change the fact that he fundamentally changed the way we think about privacy and the government's role in digital privacy for the better. James Clapper lied to Congress weeks before Snowden's revelations, yet he never faced perjury charges. That's what a broken system looks like.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#82

Post by seppin »

aarchi wrote: post #43
seppin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's call a "cover story". He visited the Russian consulate in HK (for a birthday party no less) before he left and his main legal advisor was the lawyer from Wikileaks , a Russian intel cutout. All just coincidence I guess.

Do you have a source for this?

5 seconds on Google. This claims says he actually stayed there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/report-snowden-stayed-a...

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#83

Post by exolymph »

wavefunction wrote: post #7
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.

> I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree.

Shocker, upvoting someone you agree with!

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#84

Post by advisedwang »

shadowgovt wrote: post #55
Shivetya wrote: post #2

I seriously hope that the President gives Snowden a pardon even it as a dick move on his way out. His releases were far less dangerous than Manning but I think his problem is no compelling story to distract from his actions and he did step on a lot of toes. Toes that deserved to be stomped.

Snowden was never found guilty of anything, so the President can't pardon him. And Presidential authority doesn't extend to say "Whatever he did, this country forgives him" in the absence of a guilty verdict. It's commonly thought to, but the actual result is unknown; a subsequent President's authority to arrest him on his "pardoned" actions and try him for commission of crime under the theory that one cannot be pard…

Nixon was pardoned without even being charged with a crime.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#85

Post by artingent »

Happy for Snowden, but I hope that if Biden wins, he'd pardon Snowden - following Obama's footsteps in commuting Chelsea Manning. Although it might be harder since Biden to the Right of Obama, and given how hawkish, war-mongering, neo-libs have cozied up to Biden, and commuting Snowden isn't really possible since he has never been tried in court.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#86

Post by ddlatham »

fandroid wrote: post #52

Due to the extent of mil intelligence docs stolen, and since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time, whistleblower is a disingenuious title for Mr. Snowden. Putting aside domestic disclosures, it's difficult to see how the scope of stolen materials merits praise or euphemistic titles. Snowden is a fugitive. As it pertains to the majority of what was stolen, he is not a whistleblower, but a thief. Had…

since the domestic programs deployed were lawful at the time

Just last month:

> Seven years after former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden blew the whistle on the mass surveillance of Americans’ telephone records, an appeals court has found the program was unlawful - and that the U.S. intelligence leaders who publicly defended it were not telling the truth.

> In a ruling handed down on Wednesday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit said the warrantless telephone dragnet that secretly collected millions of Americans’ telephone records violated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and may well have been unconstitutional.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-nsa-spying/u-s-court-...

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#87

Post by shadowgovt »

pseingatl wrote: post #78
shadowgovt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden was never found guilty of anything, so the President can't pardon him. And Presidential authority doesn't extend to say "Whatever he did, this country forgives him" in the absence of a guilty verdict. It's commonly thought to, but the actual result is unknown; a subsequent President's authority to arrest him on his "pardoned" actions and try him for commission of crime under the theory that one cannot be pard…

That's not true. Nixon was preemptively pardoned by Ford with no charges pending.

And no subsequent President challenged that pardon. That's the operative factor here.

Nobody's ever tried to claim the President lacks authority to pardon for crimes untried. What would happen if it was tried is unclear; there's no precedent. Trump's enough of an outlier that his successor might actually test the hypothesis.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#88

Post by DubiousPusher »

dragonwriter wrote: post #56
thakoppno wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is technically true. however, is there any case where the admission of guilt has been used to coerce testimony from a pardon recipient? is there really a practical downside to being pardoned?

> this is technically true. No, it is not even technically true. EDIT: However, as pointed out, the following statement, in my original response, was incorrect: Nor do pardons even have to be “accepted” to have effect, it's a unilateral executive power. EDIT[2]: additional response on another point previously overlooked: > however, is there any case where the admission of guilt has been used to coerce testimony from…

Isn't the explicit ruling of Burdick that a pardon must be accepted by the individual?

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#89

Post by pseingatl »

moomin wrote: post #39
wavefunction wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you because you merely posted your opinion, with which I agree. His actions did result in loss of trust in the US from foreign governments and people but I think his main intent was to alert the American people to what their government is doing. I consider him a patriot and my only regret is that he was trapped in Russia though I'm not sure his plans to travel to South America would have panned out.

He was planning to go to Ecuador, wasn't he? Which at the time was pretty friendly to those viewpoints. And then Ola Bini got arrested and detained so I don't think it's that friendly anymore.

Correct. The US canceled his passport while he was in Russia, hoping that they would deport him. Whoever had that idea should be fired. Given the Assange situation, it is fortunate for Snowden that he did not reach either Ecuador or Venezuela, the latter country offering him political asylum as well.

Re: Russia gives Edward Snowden permanent residency

#90

Post by elefanten »

mikestew wrote: post #53
tinus_hn wrote: post #22

The big question is what Russia has to gain from this. Is it just to troll the US?

Perhaps you weren't alive or old enough to pay attention back when Russia ballet dancers/athletes/et. al. would come to the U. S. for the Russian Nutcracker Ballet tour, then ask for asylum. Or maybe your country-that-is-not-the-US didn't make a big deal of it, but it would be all over the news about how some ballet performer seeks asylum from The Evil Empire(tm). Of course the person would seek asylum in the U. S.,…

Maybe because they don't really have a story for why anyone would want to move there, other than running afoul of the same state security organizations that Russia is already opposed to.

It's not exactly a huge draw for anyone who does NOT have those unusual security concerns.

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