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FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

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Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#21

Post by louwrentius »

dividedbyzero wrote: post #6
ezoe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those poor workers who has to use Windows for Linux-related works because of stupid employer's policy previously use VM, so it doesn't change much. Nothing to be eaten.

Nah, lots of shops begrudgingly support Linux laptops because a VM is a lot less practical, and the productivity hit would be substantial, probably, and forcing devs to make do with Windows only is bad for hiring. If WSL really works out, though, it might be the other way around – Linux on Windows might work really well, be able to do things Linux itself can't, like interfacing with Windows-only hardware, using Direc…

I think the year of Linux on the desktop will be heralded by Microsoft introducing WSL3 that provides absolute compatibility with all Linux applications. ;-)

Not that most people would want to run most of those, but Microsofts corporate customers are fed up with supporting those Linux laptops and all the problems related to that.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#22

Post by y04nn »

mekster wrote: post #5
josteink wrote: post #2

Much like WSL may be “eating” away at real Linux user-share, it will be interesting to see if enabling FreeBSD development outside FreeBSD itself will somehow affect the FreeBSD marketshare (for better or worse).

I gave up on FreeBSD on my hobby server after having have to maintain tiny differences all over for my ansible script and zshrc and whatnot. It just takes unnecessary effort to keep up with what just works for Linux and I didn't see much benefit sticking to FreeBSD.

For me this is the opposite, I use Linux on my laptop and FreeBSD on a hobby server. I find it easier to configure although I have much more experience with Linux. Things I don't link on Linux are systemd, pulseaudio, hundreds of packets managers that make it not always straight forward how to patch a package.

What I like with FreeBSD is the slower pace of evolution, so there is less breaking change per unit of time, that makes me spend less time fixing things while being up to date, and when it break there is always a good documentation available. Things I like in FreebSD: pf, zfs, bhyve, rc.d, good separation between user configuration changes and system configuration.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#23

Post by louwrentius »

patrec wrote: post #9
ezoe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those poor workers who has to use Windows for Linux-related works because of stupid employer's policy previously use VM, so it doesn't change much. Nothing to be eaten.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

I think that with WSL2 this is already the case. I have worked extensively with WSL, it is good enough. No need for a Linux VM.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#24

Post by louwrentius »

znpy wrote: post #10
patrec wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

it's called "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"

There is nothing to extinghuish, except for the notion of Linux on the desktop, that was never a thing anyway, except for a few technerds.

Microsoft has indeed embraced Linux, in the context of Azure, they are making a ton of money thanks to Linux.

And if people develop for Linux-based platforms, why not give them the tools?

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#25

Post by scaladev »

lmm wrote: post #20
mekster wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave up on FreeBSD on my hobby server after having have to maintain tiny differences all over for my ansible script and zshrc and whatnot. It just takes unnecessary effort to keep up with what just works for Linux and I didn't see much benefit sticking to FreeBSD.

FreeBSD feels more solid to me; upgrades are easier, and stuff changes less often. I don't have time to keep up with maintaining a Linux server any more.

What are you talking about? Put CentOS or Ubuntu LTS on your box and forget about it for the next ten years. The only updates you'll get are security and bug fixes, nothing fundamental will change. The next LTS release you'll install in 2030 will have substantial differences, but FreeBSD changes quite a bit too in such a large time span.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#26

Post by 1MachineElf »

sm84258 wrote: post #19
zeveb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

you are being downvoted because kvm is just not capable of being hyper v and it never will be. hyper v is the best software in existance and windows will be fine forever.

My Hyper-V endeavor is basically a failed one, because on the latest version of Windows, running VMs still causes random bluescreens on my Ryzen-based workstation. I wish I could say it was good software, but it's very much lacking for me.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#27

Post by louwrentius »

busterarm wrote: post #12
patrec wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

You underestimate most companies' (with significant internal engineering organizations) commitment to open source. It's been 8 years since I've even had to touch Windows professionally and without any overt effort on my part.

For every such workplace there are probably 100 companies that only support a Windows-based computer.

I think you overestimate the prevalence of such environments.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#28

Post by jraph »

trashburger wrote: post #15
zeveb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

Why is this getting downvoted? He's right. Refute his points instead of downvoting him.

> Why is this getting downvoted? He's right. Refute his points instead of downvoting him.

>> I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a good tiling window manager on X11/GNU/Linux

I don't like Windows, but its UI is not that bad, come on.

Moreover, I use GNU/Linux full time but I don't use a tiling manager. My windows are fullscreen most of the time, and the rest of the time the features that allow putting windows on the corners or the sides (with the keyboard or the mouse) are more than enough. Tiling window managers are not for everyone.

I didn't downvote but to me the message shows a lack of observation on how people use computers.

The update manager that popups a notification or a dialog box or reboots in the middle of a presentation or a movie or something and, to add insult to injury, the system taking its time to apply the updates during the next startup? that could be embarrassing.

Convenient UX features from the Linux world lacking on Windows are a thing (selection / middle click paste?), but Windows UI seems excellent. It's just less excellent than Plasma obviously, but it's nothing short of bad or embarrasing.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#29

Post by brobdingnagians »

josteink wrote: post #2

Much like WSL may be “eating” away at real Linux user-share, it will be interesting to see if enabling FreeBSD development outside FreeBSD itself will somehow affect the FreeBSD marketshare (for better or worse).

I attempted to switch to a FreeBSD desktop, the first thing I noticed was that Redshift didn't work at all for changing colour temperature. It appears that they switched everything from X to Wayland, and that means Redshift stopped working, but no one appears to have noticed... That was a bad sign, so I uninstalled.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#30

Post by aesyondu »

jasoneckert wrote: post #3

"On the Git front, their transitioning from Subversion to Git they hope to have a beta repository by the end of October." Their migration from Subversion to Git also provided the motive for the murder mystery book "git commit murder" by Michael W. Lucas.

At first I thought the title was too clickbaity. Then I saw the amazon reviews and now I'm curious and will add this to my read list. I'd like to know your thoughts if you've read it as well.
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