FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues • Hacker News Board

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#11

Post by corty » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #8

dividedbyzero wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, lots of shops begrudgingly support Linux laptops because a VM is a lot less practical, and the productivity hit would be substantial, probably, and forcing devs to make do with Windows only is bad for hiring. If WSL really works out, though, it might be the other way around – Linux on Windows might work really well, be able to do things Linux itself can't, like interfacing with Windows-only hardware, using Direc…

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

Most people who are happy with WoL are webdevs who do not really use anything beyond npm and git. So most people do not notice how bad things really are on Windows

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#12

Post by busterarm » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:10 PM UTC

patrec wrote: post #9

ezoe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those poor workers who has to use Windows for Linux-related works because of stupid employer's policy previously use VM, so it doesn't change much. Nothing to be eaten.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

You underestimate most companies' (with significant internal engineering organizations) commitment to open source.

It's been 8 years since I've even had to touch Windows professionally and without any overt effort on my part.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#13

Post by Chilinot » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:22 PM UTC

mekster wrote: post #5

josteink wrote: post #2

Much like WSL may be “eating” away at real Linux user-share, it will be interesting to see if enabling FreeBSD development outside FreeBSD itself will somehow affect the FreeBSD marketshare (for better or worse).

I gave up on FreeBSD on my hobby server after having have to maintain tiny differences all over for my ansible script and zshrc and whatnot. It just takes unnecessary effort to keep up with what just works for Linux and I didn't see much benefit sticking to FreeBSD.

This is a genuine issue. Dont understand the downvoters. I completely agree.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#14

Post by lproven » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:23 PM UTC

znpy wrote: post #10

patrec wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

it's called "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"

This. It's been MICROS~1's primary tactic against competitors for at least 1/3 of a century now and nothing has changed: now the company just _says_ it likes FOSS.

Does Windows set up dual-boot if Linux is installed first? Naw.

Does Windows read or write Linux filesystems? Naw.

Has MS open-sourced any significant or important parts of Windows where it won't benefit directly? Naw.

It is in MS' direct interests if PowerShell or .NET are supported on other platforms; it makes them more credible tools.

Did we get source for Explorer or anything? Naw. Calculator. Big fat hairy deal.

Has MS open-sourced any obsolete products that might actually be of use or interest, such as the final versions of MS-DOS (25 years old) or Windows 9x? Naw. They contain things like Explorer and so on that are still used. Can't go actually _helping_ people.

It's all marketing flim-flam. Don't believe the hype.

Linux is doing great on phones and servers and so on. On the desktop, only ChromeOS is not a rounding error. So, if MS can embrace-and-extend the Linux desktop, and make Win10 a better desktop Linux than Linux, then it helps MS and it helps Win10.

And with what it learns from that, it can apply to WSL in the datacentre and on Azure, where it can make Windows Server a better Kubernetes than Kubernetes.

Which, let's face it, would not be all that hard.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#15

Post by trashburger » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:23 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #8

dividedbyzero wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, lots of shops begrudgingly support Linux laptops because a VM is a lot less practical, and the productivity hit would be substantial, probably, and forcing devs to make do with Windows only is bad for hiring. If WSL really works out, though, it might be the other way around – Linux on Windows might work really well, be able to do things Linux itself can't, like interfacing with Windows-only hardware, using Direc…

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

Why is this getting downvoted? He's right. Refute his points instead of downvoting him.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#16

Post by ianai » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:25 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #12

patrec wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a non-zero chance WSL will make desktop Linux completely irrelevant even for developers.

You underestimate most companies' (with significant internal engineering organizations) commitment to open source. It's been 8 years since I've even had to touch Windows professionally and without any overt effort on my part.

Where May I work at such places? How do I find them?

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#17

Post by jraph » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:27 PM UTC

sarcastix wrote: post #7

It's great that we don't need FreeBSD to build FreeBSD anymore. In other news, my butcher has finally become a vegetarian. But, joking aside, it's great that FreeBSD has improved Linux KPI layer, improved Linux application compatibility, and has synced their ZFS code with upstream ZFS-on-Linux.

> In other news, my butcher has finally become a vegetarian.

That happened in Grenoble, France: The guy behind "La bouche'rit" ("The mouth laughs", a pun on "boucherie", the butchery), a vegan restaurant, was a previously a butcher.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#18

Post by pgt » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:28 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #2

Much like WSL may be “eating” away at real Linux user-share, it will be interesting to see if enabling FreeBSD development outside FreeBSD itself will somehow affect the FreeBSD marketshare (for better or worse).

Bootstrapping is as important as dogfooding. If you make it easy for people to try things, maybe they'll use it - maybe they'll change it. But if it crumbles in their hands, then it was never going to survive.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#19

Post by sm84258 » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:29 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #8

dividedbyzero wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, lots of shops begrudgingly support Linux laptops because a VM is a lot less practical, and the productivity hit would be substantial, probably, and forcing devs to make do with Windows only is bad for hiring. If WSL really works out, though, it might be the other way around – Linux on Windows might work really well, be able to do things Linux itself can't, like interfacing with Windows-only hardware, using Direc…

> Linux on Windows might work really well … and be the superior experience in total for lots of people. No, it will not and — without massive changes at Microsoft and in Windows — will never be. Source: have a Windows box, am repeatedly amazed at how bad it is. Seriously, it is embarrassing to use Windows. I think the only reason people enjoy it is the fact that they have not gotten a chance to really spend time in a…

you are being downvoted because kvm is just not capable of being hyper v and it never will be. hyper v is the best software in existance and windows will be fine forever.

Re: FreeBSD Can Now Be Built From Linux/macOS Hosts, Transition To Git Continues

#20

Post by lmm » Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 12:33 PM UTC

mekster wrote: post #5

josteink wrote: post #2

Much like WSL may be “eating” away at real Linux user-share, it will be interesting to see if enabling FreeBSD development outside FreeBSD itself will somehow affect the FreeBSD marketshare (for better or worse).

I gave up on FreeBSD on my hobby server after having have to maintain tiny differences all over for my ansible script and zshrc and whatnot. It just takes unnecessary effort to keep up with what just works for Linux and I didn't see much benefit sticking to FreeBSD.

FreeBSD feels more solid to me; upgrades are easier, and stuff changes less often. I don't have time to keep up with maintaining a Linux server any more.