Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Debian donation for Peertube development

bits.debian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 128 posts

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#51

Post by zaarn »

viraptor wrote: post #42
zaarn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risky, WebRTC isn't quite P2P, the sending peer still has to sort of spend the resources to send to all participants. It's a full mesh but you'd want something more open. You'll also have to consider DDoS protections for streamers.

I'm not sure what you mean... why would webrtc spend any more resources than the current solution?

WebRTC in Videochats usually employs 1:1 P2P, meaning everyone builds a peer connection to everyone else. So for N people you have N connections carrying your traffic M, so the total bandwidth is NM.

For torrent P2P you get clusters of peers sharing data, you don't have to send data to every peer, the usual outcome is logarithmic, so you connect to log(N) peers for N participants with total bandwidth being log(N)M.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#52

Post by zo1 »

dewey wrote: post #43
feralimal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to get a handle on what disappears; at least I haven't seen a straightforward breakdown. Certainly things that talks about 911 not being an act of terrorism, Sandy Hook and other school shooting being a govt sponsored hoax, the Las Vegas shooting hoax, things relating to space being hoaxed, etc. I'm not going to provide an opinion on these things. Whatever your perspective, the thing I would argue, is that…

Personally this sounds like exactly the type of content I want to have removed from platforms I frequent. Same as foreign election meddling ads on Facebook or Nazis and bots on Twitter that users urge the platforms to deal with in a better way. If I look at the front page of some peertube instances it consists of Liveleak-like content, conspiracy theories and ISIS recruitment videos and I can see how that is not very…

It's easy to look at the extreme examples and get widespread agreement, sure. The problem is in all the grey areas between benign, reasonable, controversial, factually-incorrect, manipulative and then "really bad" content.

And the argument becomes even more moot when you consider that no one is "forcing" people to watch content that they don't like, they simply ignore it and heck the platform can just hide content you ignore/report. At that point, we're conceding that we actually don't want people to see certain content because of certain reasons. And I think those reasons boil down to us collectively thinking that people can be manipulated/influenced, are unable to look at these videos objectively, and can fall for the lies contained within it.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#53

Post by feralimal »

dewey wrote: post #47
feralimal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. I couldn't disagree more! My response would be, don't you think you can judge for yourself what is ok, and to not watch things that are nonsense? Also, aren't you concerned that you could be manipulated as you may be trusting authorities who - out of self-interest -…

> you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. That's not what I'm saying. Removing the information from YouTube isn't removing the information from the internet. They are just making use of their right to decide what they give space to on their platform. I can still go to a specific conspiracy theory website and rea…

But it does. Its public knowledge that google was partially funded by inqtel. The government subsidises corporations.

I think you and I must have different ideas on what governance is. You probably think education, corporations, government and media are separate. I don't. I think they are part of the same governance apparatus.

Hence you have a search company providing email, content, etc in google. And you have Bezos who supplies your online request and media. And Elon who supplies a car service (that he can shut down), space, and neural laces. Microsoft who provide the world's operating systems, family planning and viruses. Etc.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#54

Post by tpxl »

renke1 wrote: post #21
ordo_inf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Sweden too. Is that true? I thought it was more around 4k EUR. Or am I being lowballed here...

10k for the average developer (in Europe) sounds a bit too high, 4k a bit too low, but closer to what I would expect.

A lot of Europe is the balkans and the east where I'd be surprised if the average employer cost for a decent developer exceeds 2k/month.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#56

Post by zo1 »

dewey wrote: post #47
feralimal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. I couldn't disagree more! My response would be, don't you think you can judge for yourself what is ok, and to not watch things that are nonsense? Also, aren't you concerned that you could be manipulated as you may be trusting authorities who - out of self-interest -…

> you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. That's not what I'm saying. Removing the information from YouTube isn't removing the information from the internet. They are just making use of their right to decide what they give space to on their platform. I can still go to a specific conspiracy theory website and rea…

> "Removing the information from YouTube isn't removing the information from the internet."

What gets "flagged" or "removed" from Youtube, mostly also gets the same treatment at Facebook, Twitter, etc. Some extreme examples have seen people be deplatformed from a wide range of "internet" platforms, including their hosting. It's a sad road to go down, and each time we concede things such as removing content from Youtube because of "user safety" and "experience", we add legitimacy for the deplatforming, cancelling and exclusion of individuals with different or controversial opinions.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#57

Post by dewey »

zo1 wrote: post #52
dewey wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally this sounds like exactly the type of content I want to have removed from platforms I frequent. Same as foreign election meddling ads on Facebook or Nazis and bots on Twitter that users urge the platforms to deal with in a better way. If I look at the front page of some peertube instances it consists of Liveleak-like content, conspiracy theories and ISIS recruitment videos and I can see how that is not very…

It's easy to look at the extreme examples and get widespread agreement, sure. The problem is in all the grey areas between benign, reasonable, controversial, factually-incorrect, manipulative and then "really bad" content. And the argument becomes even more moot when you consider that no one is "forcing" people to watch content that they don't like, they simply ignore it and heck the platform can just hide content yo…

> when you consider that no one is "forcing" people to watch content that they don't like, they simply ignore it

Throwing something into the recommendation algorithm over periods of time or showing you ads will likely have an influence on you even if you wouldn't usually look at the content or search for it.

Facebook itself already experimented with that in the early days of social media: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every...

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#58

Post by ath92 »

feralimal wrote: post #45
dewey wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally this sounds like exactly the type of content I want to have removed from platforms I frequent. Same as foreign election meddling ads on Facebook or Nazis and bots on Twitter that users urge the platforms to deal with in a better way. If I look at the front page of some peertube instances it consists of Liveleak-like content, conspiracy theories and ISIS recruitment videos and I can see how that is not very…

Well, you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. I couldn't disagree more! My response would be, don't you think you can judge for yourself what is ok, and to not watch things that are nonsense? Also, aren't you concerned that you could be manipulated as you may be trusting authorities who - out of self-interest -…

I think it's important to realise that anybody can be influenced, even smart people who look at any information with healthy criticism.

Unfortunately, the human brain is not without its problems. One of those problems is that information that is repeated often will start to "feel" true, even if it is false. If you want to read about these kinds of biases, I'd recommend the book Thinking, fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman.

With platforms like YouTube, it's incredibly easy to get stuck in a filter bubble. Their recommendation algorithm is more than happy to keep recommending you conspiracy theories, because users seem to like those, and the algorithm doesn't care about the actual content.

And once you've watched 10 of those videos, the 11th will no longer sound as ridiculous as it would have if you had watched it without first being (perhaps subconsciously) influenced by those first 10 videos.

This is a real risk of algorithm-based recommendation platforms, and something that Google/Facebook are trying to address now because it has already caused real problems in society.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#59

Post by viraptor »

zaarn wrote: post #51
viraptor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean... why would webrtc spend any more resources than the current solution?

WebRTC in Videochats usually employs 1:1 P2P, meaning everyone builds a peer connection to everyone else. So for N people you have N connections carrying your traffic M, so the total bandwidth is N M. For torrent P2P you get clusters of peers sharing data, you don't have to send data to every peer, the usual outcome is logarithmic, so you connect to log(N) peers for N participants with total bandwidth being log(N) M.

That's only because for video chats you need a full mesh in p2p. There's no requirement for that in webrtc itself which would be just the transport protocol in your case. You can also send only the selected chunks rather than stream the whole file.

Re: Debian donation for Peertube development

#60

Post by feralimal »

zo1 wrote: post #56
dewey wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are saying it is a good thing that certain information is unavailable to you, and that you trust google, the government to do the job for you. That's not what I'm saying. Removing the information from YouTube isn't removing the information from the internet. They are just making use of their right to decide what they give space to on their platform. I can still go to a specific conspiracy theory website and rea…

> " Removing the information from YouTube isn't removing the information from the internet. " What gets "flagged" or "removed" from Youtube, mostly also gets the same treatment at Facebook, Twitter, etc. Some extreme examples have seen people be deplatformed from a wide range of "internet" platforms, including their hosting. It's a sad road to go down, and each time we concede things such as removing content from You…

Yes - corporates, media, education AND government form the governance system we have.
Post reply on HN