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Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

medrxiv.org

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Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#11

Post by noneeeed »

isoprophlex wrote: post #8
redis_mlc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what's the effect of psychotrauma resulting from illness and hospitalization on cognitive function" Ventilators are extremely physically traumatic - those patients are considered to be the sickest in any hospital.

It must be hell to have a bunch of suited figures tell you "we're putting you to sleep, hope to see you on the other side"... and then wake up intubated.

I believe ITU patients often suffer from psychosis while in treatment and PTSD afterwards. Intensive medical intervention really can be incredibly traumatic for many, over and above the trauma of the illness or injury that put you in ITU.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#12

Post by torben-friis »

redis_mlc wrote: post #6
isoprophlex wrote: post #3

By no means do I want to detract from the severity of covid infections, but a very important question to answer would be "what's the effect of psychotrauma resulting from illness and hospitalization on cognitive function" I feel that my own cognitive functions have declined as well during the pandemic, due to stress and uncertainty alone. I haven't been infected, mind you.

> "what's the effect of psychotrauma resulting from illness and hospitalization on cognitive function" Ventilators are extremely physically traumatic - those patients are considered to be the sickest in any hospital.

In which way are they physically traumatic? (Not doubting you, just curious and completely ignorant on how they're used)

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#13

Post by st1x7 »

kasperni wrote: post #2

From the conclusion: "The scale of the observed deficits was not insubstantial; the 0.57 SD global composite score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was equivalent to the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 512 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke (-0.40SDs) and the 1016 who…

Reduction equivalent to the cognitive decline of aging 10 years and larger than the cognitive decline of suffering a stroke? Sounds pretty substantial to me.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#14

Post by noja »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #10
redis_mlc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group So this affects almost nobody then, and is probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization and ventilator organ damage, aside from corona.

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted - here’s a page about post-intensive care syndrome, on the website of the society for critical care medicine, that’s concordant with what you said: https://www.sccm.org/MyICUCare/THRIVE/Post-intensive-Care-Sy...

> Not sure why you’re getting downvoted

I think he overlooked that the people were hospitalized and on ventilators because they had covid.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#15

Post by xd »

redis_mlc wrote: post #4
kasperni wrote: post #2

From the conclusion: "The scale of the observed deficits was not insubstantial; the 0.57 SD global composite score reduction for the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group was equivalent to the average 10-year decline in global performance between the ages of 20 to 70 within this dataset. It was larger than the mean deficit of 512 people who indicated they had previously suffered a stroke (-0.40SDs) and the 1016 who…

> the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group So this affects almost nobody then, and is probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization and ventilator organ damage, aside from corona.

Also, I had a brief look over the paper but couldn't find anything to control for isolation since lockdown .. surely this would of had an effect on peoples cognition.

On a side note, maybe it's just me but I keep seeing comments that don't follow a "politically" accepted view point, being down vote like yours.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#16

Post by zikzak »

isoprophlex wrote: post #8
redis_mlc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "what's the effect of psychotrauma resulting from illness and hospitalization on cognitive function" Ventilators are extremely physically traumatic - those patients are considered to be the sickest in any hospital.

It must be hell to have a bunch of suited figures tell you "we're putting you to sleep, hope to see you on the other side"... and then wake up intubated.

I have a screwed up neck. WHen I had surgery for a different part of my body I had to be awake while they "put the tube in". You are on an operating table with an anesthetic in your throat, your arms are restrained, then these masked (which would seem more normal now, I guess) and gowned figures start forcing tube down your throat while you try to "swallow it" and breath through your nose... there's a point where you can't breath. As soon as it is in place and you feel like you are going to suffocate they hit you with the general anesthetic and it's light out. You wake up (no time has passed for you) and your throat is sore. I had nightmares about it for months after (initially, whenever I closed my eyes). The drugs they give you in the hospital help somewhat but once home, look out. I can't imagine what it would be like to wake up in an ICU with that tube still in. I know eventually I will need another operation and I sometimes realize this will all happen again. I am trying to learn to live with this and realizing without the operations I will die, etc. Also, that so many people are dealing with so many worse things.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#18

Post by w_t_payne »

xd wrote: post #15
redis_mlc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the hospitalised with ventilator sub-group So this affects almost nobody then, and is probably caused by the sedatives, immobilization and ventilator organ damage, aside from corona.

Also, I had a brief look over the paper but couldn't find anything to control for isolation since lockdown .. surely this would of had an effect on peoples cognition. On a side note, maybe it's just me but I keep seeing comments that don't follow a "politically" accepted view point, being down vote like yours.

Maybe it's because this whole situation has been ridiculously politicized, to the point where it's difficult to have a rational fact-based discussion.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#19

Post by xd »

noja wrote: post #14
ghufran_syed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted - here’s a page about post-intensive care syndrome, on the website of the society for critical care medicine, that’s concordant with what you said: https://www.sccm.org/MyICUCare/THRIVE/Post-intensive-Care-Sy...

> Not sure why you’re getting downvoted I think he overlooked that the people were hospitalized and on ventilators because they had covid.

But it's still an effect of the treatment. If you perform a study on people whom have been ill you're going to get results that show all the symptoms of illness.. the study could have been done with any illness and likely show cognitive decline.

Re: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from Covid-19

#20

Post by cedex12 »

On the subject of side/long term effects of covid:

I've heard, second-hand from doctors/physicians, that the long term effects of covid are not necessarily that bad compared to e.g. the flu. The argument being that:

1. covid has been one of the most studied viruses of this kind, so that you have good chances of stumbling upon lots of size effects, simply due to the sheer size of scrutiny.

2. a bad flu also can yield nasty side effects, but we don't talk about that that much.

I don't know what to make of that, and since it's second-hand information, I don't even know how true it is… can anyone shed some light on these arguments?

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