My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too • Hacker News Board

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#121

Post by eloisius » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 1:47 PM UTC

thrav wrote: post #96

kdtop wrote: post #90

The problem with chatbots is one of an unfulfilled promise, an unrealistic setting of user expectations. An empty Google search window doesn't pretend to be a human being -- although it is actually very powerful. Clippy, on the other hand, has a human face and pretends to be an intelligent agent, only to fail. So chatbots, when seeming to act like a human via natural language, are held in the user's mind to a higher…

This is not true of all ChatBots. In fact, some companies outright discourage using theirs as such. USAA, for example, makes it abundantly clear that you’re talking to a robot, before beginning the conversation and provides multiple choice options for common support flows. I’m actually a big fan of theirs for things like travel notifications or ATM withdrawal limit increases.

Personally, I despise these interfaces. It’s not “chat,” I’m being provided with option prompts and everything. Why squash it all into a linear, 1D chat dialog instead of just a regular web form to do a simple task like increase your withdraw limit?

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#122

Post by arbitrary_name » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

lqet wrote: post #83

dheera wrote: post #8

I absolutely despise those pop-up "Can I help you" boxes on product websites (usually Intercom). It completely disrupts my flow as a reader in trying to understand the product. That attention disruption got so bad I blocked Intercom and their ilk via injected CSS rules. I really want to take it a step further and write a plug in to interface a chat bot with the human on the other end and waste their time so sites beg…

The real-life equivalent of this is one of the main reasons why I prefer to shop online (except for groceries). It's just not possible to study the products without a "Can I help you?" salesperson popping up next to you after a minute.

And you wave them off politely and keep browsing. What's so hard about that?

What a strange and petty complaint.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#123

Post by AnonC » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

Whenever I see an unsolicited (they’re always unsolicited) popup that I haven’t yet blocked for chat, I repeatedly tell it “Stupid bot” and “Useless bot” a few times. Hopefully some human sees those messages and it lifts their spirits.

Till date I haven’t seen one chatbot that has been really helpful. It’s like the Internet version of a phone tree where you struggle to get to a human who may be able to help.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#124

Post by michaelcampbell » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

lqet wrote: post #83

dheera wrote: post #8

I absolutely despise those pop-up "Can I help you" boxes on product websites (usually Intercom). It completely disrupts my flow as a reader in trying to understand the product. That attention disruption got so bad I blocked Intercom and their ilk via injected CSS rules. I really want to take it a step further and write a plug in to interface a chat bot with the human on the other end and waste their time so sites beg…

The real-life equivalent of this is one of the main reasons why I prefer to shop online (except for groceries). It's just not possible to study the products without a "Can I help you?" salesperson popping up next to you after a minute.

I love our local Ace Hardware (and I have a soft spot having worked part time for one many decades ago), but the amount of "can I help you" when you walk into the store is almost suffocating. To their credit, they do leave me alone once I get past the initial onslaught, and are GENUINELY helpful if I need help after that and seek someone out, but yeah, I feel you on this one.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#125

Post by thrav » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

eloisius wrote: post #121

thrav wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true of all ChatBots. In fact, some companies outright discourage using theirs as such. USAA, for example, makes it abundantly clear that you’re talking to a robot, before beginning the conversation and provides multiple choice options for common support flows. I’m actually a big fan of theirs for things like travel notifications or ATM withdrawal limit increases.

Personally, I despise these interfaces. It’s not “chat,” I’m being provided with option prompts and everything. Why squash it all into a linear, 1D chat dialog instead of just a regular web form to do a simple task like increase your withdraw limit?

Because the ChatBot squashes all those different pages and forms into one location. It takes the time and mental load of trying to locate features on the site or app off of me.

Instead of navigating through 3 links to reach the form, having to search the newly loaded page each time, I answer 3 questions.

In truth, I just type “ATM withdrawal limit” and the form begins, because it’s so obvious what I’m trying to do.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#126

Post by nickt » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

vertis wrote: post #51

ben_w wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find those chat boxes to be completely irritating. The supermajority here does, or so I would guess. We aren’t representative, and that’s important to remember when designing user interfaces.

There is a chance of survivorship bias. You get a bunch of messages through the chat interface and all of a sudden you believe it adds value, when in reality you're potentially annoying a whole bunch of users that aren't necessarily telling you that they're annoyed. A favourite story[1] (and I can't remember where I read it first) is the WWII bombers that the US military were trying to understand how to protect by an…

Discussed here recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23901836

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#127

Post by mrkwse » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

owlie wrote: post #108

mrkwse wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been able to find anything specifically around popup animations, but the BBC's Cape initiative discusses some of the stimulations etc. that can be intrusive for those with neurodivergent conditions such as autism spectrum condition, ADHD, etc. I've found that most of these chatbots will use sound alerts to draw attention, and Cape's environmental toolkit definitely references these. While a lot of the conte…

(Off-topic tangent here, sorry.) I have an ASD diagnosis. This is the first I've heard of "condition". Neat! Is this to move away from "disorder" because of stigma/negative connotation?

I believe it is to try and avoid negative connotations. Not quite sure how widespread it is, but the BBC do try to be very conscious of their language in such contexts, and I think do a very good job of it.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#128

Post by paledot » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #8

I absolutely despise those pop-up "Can I help you" boxes on product websites (usually Intercom). It completely disrupts my flow as a reader in trying to understand the product. That attention disruption got so bad I blocked Intercom and their ilk via injected CSS rules. I really want to take it a step further and write a plug in to interface a chat bot with the human on the other end and waste their time so sites beg…

In (weak) defense of Intercom, it's nice when used correctly. For instance, if we're experiencing a service outage, we can send a notice to all active users with that service enabled. But there are limited use cases where it's valuable, and it is heavily abused.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#129

Post by heisenbit » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #61

Let's not forget: in the greater scheme of things, chatbots really are still in their infancy. For those old enough to remember, picture the computer interfaces of yesteryear - say, the 80s - and ask the people who had to work with them back then how many of them enjoyed the experience. And I'm not talking about computer scientists and the likes, I mean your average office worker. Fast forward to 2020, and you cannot…

You are realizing the huge amount of control you are handing over in this dialog compared to quickly scanning a list of potential shows and being able to quickly scan available seats and prices?

Information is power and these chat interfaces will sooner or later prey on the less informed.

Re: My chatbot is dead – Why yours should probably be too

#130

Post by metafunctor » Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 3:00 PM UTC

hackerman123469 wrote: post #118

metafunctor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it's trying to emulate how the cursor works on iPadOS. I can appreciate the experiment, and I think the execution here is quite good (doesn't feel sluggish at all to me). However, I agree that this just isn't something websites should do. On an iPad, the site shows it's own context sensitive cursor below the iPadOS cursor, for extra weirdness.

It's very sluggish on a large monitor

Doesn't seem to be about resolution — it works fine on my 5120 x 2880 monitor (macOS Catalina). I'd guess it's probably to do with hardware acceleration not being used, or something like that.