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Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

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Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#151
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is probably something to the story here, because superficially it doesn't look like Foxconn benefited from this, so why did they do it? The journo tried to paint this as some kind of 'big fraud by FoxConn' but that's clearly not it, a big part of the story was missed. Often, sometimes corporations just make mistakes and have units that are poorly managed, we just usually don't get to witness their failures publ…

Foxconn thought they were licking the boots of the American despot and his henchman, the Governor of Wisconsin. This is the accurate assessment of the American regime abroad: it is a corrupt autocracy where the guy at the top hands out favors and punishments capriciously. It seemed to Foxconn leadership that they could break even on the boondoggle, but perhaps benefit greatly from avoiding trade sanctions.

First - 'Licking the boots of politicians' is something that happens in every country involving politicians of ever stripe.

"but perhaps benefit greatly from avoiding trade sanctions." - I don't think this is the case directly, there doesn't seem to be evidence of that, however, it might be true. Trump hasn't really singled out Chinese manufacturers.

Second - the populist/lazy/naive theme here is the supposed belief that 'political bootlicking magically prints money' - which is ridiculous - businesses have to make money somehow, there are generally no easy/magic handouts of this kind.

So the bootlicking in this circumstance enabled Foxconn to take on some really nice subsidies (!) but there is no way Foxconn comes out of that in the black without doing something productive. Even if it's on the margin.

Foxconn blew this, and possibly lost money on this and we can all agree that 'bootlickers' do not like losing money.

Nobody does.

Foxconn makes the #1 consumer product on Earth - the iPhone, and that is definitely no joke. There are divisions of Foxconn that are not only not fuckups just the opposite, are world leaders in manufacturing, probably surpassing everyone of their peers, anywhere.

So given that 1) bootlicking gets you nice things but not free profits and 2) Foxconn has operationally superior divisions ...

... the story runs short.

There are just as many question marks as answered questions.

Finally, I would say that whatever one thinks of this guy Scott Walker is besides the point - superficially this was probably a reasonable deal. Such subsidies are not uncommon and usually done with credible companies. There was risk obviously but what happened is outlandishly weird. I don't think the politicos who made this deal are so much 'to blame' other than the subsidy thresholds should have been tighter obviously.

I would say this is a good example of 'How even good Chinese companies do Business in 2020' and the results should be on display for bureaucrats and would-be belt-and-roaders everywhere.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly shameful, but sometimes the utter disregard they have for the taxpayer is so stunning and brazen that you can't help but admire.

Why do you admire unethical behavior?

I guess admiration isn't the right word. It's more like awe, at the fact that this is possible at all.

If I had any kind of power the first thing I would do would be to stamp out this corruption, but I can't, so here we are.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly shameful, but sometimes the utter disregard they have for the taxpayer is so stunning and brazen that you can't help but admire.

I actually can help myself. The lack of strong values on HN really scares the shit out of me sometimes.

If I was in their position I wouldn't do the same. I'm moreso in awe that there are people that managed to get away with this.

It's kind of like if you see a horrible weapon that is however very technically impressive, but not quite.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#154
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very incorrect view of property taxation in silicon valley. Google and Apple are not going to be harmed in the least, because Google and Apple already pay a disproportionate amount of real property taxes in Santa Clara County. If Prop 15 makes legacy businesses pay a fair assessment on their parcels, relative newcomers like Google will be helped, not harmed. Google is Santa Clara County's largest taxpayer,…

This sounds like you're in agreement. The big companies will benefit, at the expense of the small companies

I think newer companies benefit at the expense of older ones. For example in Berkeley there's a biotech startup that pays as much in property taxes for their tiny building as Bayer pays, right across the street, for their 50-acre facility. Under Prop 15 Bayer will pay much more.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#155

Following a link from the article, I'm surprised that someone with the post of Director of US Strategic Initiatives at Foxconn would have such an unprofessional twitter account https://twitter.com/alansyeung

When you realize this was all a political scam to make the Republican (ex-)governor of Wisconsin look good it makes perfect sense.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A church shouldn't have freedom of religion?

a church is not a person, it cannot believe in anything. how does a church pray? how does it make a confession? do not antropomorphize companies, it does not compute at all.

I agree that the church itself doesn't have freedom of religion. But for the members of the church to have freedom of religion they need to be able to exercise their freedom as an organized group. The end result is the same: the government is limited in what restrictions it can place on the group, because to restrict the group is to restrict the members.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fundamentally disagree with this, but on different grounds. I absolutely believe that groups of people have fewer rights than individual people. A corporation should have no right against self-incrimination, for instance. An LLC should have no right for freedom of religion. Groups are, by definition, not a monolith, and defending the rights of the group often infringes on the rights of the individual. Extending ind…

Nothing like the very egalitarian principle that says, "One rich man can advocate for his interests, but 100 poor men may not pool their resources to advocate for theirs."

It takes 100 poor men to match the rich guy and that is fairness to you?

What makes more sense is limiting both groups.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#159
Were any subsidies actually paid? My understanding is that Foxconn was ultimately not eligible for any actual credits given how their plans had changed: https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/state-t...

And if that's true then didn't the state subsidy system work exactly as intended?

NY's Amazon subsidies were designed very well. They provided tax credits for the incremental progress Amazon made on the terms of the subsidy. So the state was not paying up front and then at risk of being left in the red if Amazon were to change plans. It's up to the government to design an airtight subsidy structure that protects their interests - but it can be done.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#160
Did any voters actually fall for this? It seemed laughably fraudulent to me at the time, and it's not clear to me if the con worked or if politicians are so non-responsive to the voters that it didn't really matter if anyone was actually fooled.
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