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Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

theverge.com

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Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#51

Post by gruez »

pg_bot wrote: post #45
kenned3 wrote: post #19

This is a great article around why "corporate welfare" rarely works out. Also, semes like a textbook example of "eminent domain" abuse? We call this "expropriation" in Canada and it is rarely abused like this. Taking peoples property to give it to a private corporation? I can understand the need to take property for public use (roads, infra) but the US needs to end eminent domain abuse. If Foxconn needed the property…

You can blame the worst supreme court decision in the 21st century for that. (Kelo v City of New London) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

worst? what about citizens united? how often is eminent domain abused for economic development, compared to how much favorable legislation was passed for corporations?

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#52

Post by zdragnar »

sudosysgen wrote: post #42
tootie wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate subsidies work very well in certain conditions. The biggest is in investing in industries have big long-term potential but huge upfront costs. Power generation is a good example. Subsidies also tend to work best with a portfolio like a VC fund. The other option is for a very mature industries with inelastic demand where subsidies go directly to pushing down prices. Like with food and fuel.

In general, for such industries where corporate subsidies are really really worth it, a well run SoE will do the job with less risk. For examples in power generation, EDF and HydroQuebec are cases where the government, instead of directly or indirectly subsidizing power generation, decided to just run it themselves, and they both have very clean (80% carbon free for EDF, 99.9% for HydroQuebec), and both make a solid…

Hydro is clean in the sense that clean coal is clean. You need to measure and factor in the methane generated by the decaying biome behind the dam.

We also have a lot of electrical cooperatives and other non-mega-corp electrical providers in the US. All in all, it isn't a great analogy.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#53

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

sudosysgen wrote: post #50
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fixed some of your spelling errors: "Shameful fraud by foxconn. Shame on them. The fact they do it around the world with little repercussions is shameful."

It is incredibly shameful, but sometimes the utter disregard they have for the taxpayer is so stunning and brazen that you can't help but admire.

I actually can help myself. The lack of strong values on HN really scares the shit out of me sometimes.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#54

Post by gruez »

zdragnar wrote: post #52
sudosysgen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, for such industries where corporate subsidies are really really worth it, a well run SoE will do the job with less risk. For examples in power generation, EDF and HydroQuebec are cases where the government, instead of directly or indirectly subsidizing power generation, decided to just run it themselves, and they both have very clean (80% carbon free for EDF, 99.9% for HydroQuebec), and both make a solid…

Hydro is clean in the sense that clean coal is clean. You need to measure and factor in the methane generated by the decaying biome behind the dam. We also have a lot of electrical cooperatives and other non-mega-corp electrical providers in the US. All in all, it isn't a great analogy.

>You need to measure and factor in the methane generated by the decaying biome behind the dam.

how much are we talking about? does it work out to about the same as other fossil fuels, or order(s) of magnitude less? Also, is it possible to mitigate this by burning the vegetation prior to flooding the area?

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#55

Post by me_againnnnnn »

ars wrote: post #12
quasse wrote: post #9

This entire project was a shameful example of political pump-and-dump by our former governor. He sold the more gullible elements of our state on this fairy tale about Foxconn, got lots of air time and Trump points out of it, made an abortive presidential run, and then got replaced and slunk into the shadows before the music stopped. Now our new Governor is left cleaning up the embarrassing mess while simultaneously b…

What does Foxconn get out of it? From the article they seem to have lost lots of money.

This was subsidised by the Chinese. Like Trump's going to get any success from somebody the Chinese government can control. Haha, no way. Here we are at election time and Trump has failed. Let's see what happens after he is gone.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#56

Post by pg_bot »

gruez wrote: post #51
pg_bot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can blame the worst supreme court decision in the 21st century for that. (Kelo v City of New London) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

worst ? what about citizens united? how often is eminent domain abused for economic development, compared to how much favorable legislation was passed for corporations?

I knew someone would bring up Citizens United v FEC when I said worst. I know this will be an unpopular opinion on this forum, but I believe that case was decided correctly. I agree wholeheartedly with Justice Kennedy's opinion that

"If the First Amendment has any force, it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech"

Read the opinions and dissents of that case and you may change your mind.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/558/310/#tab-opi...

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#57

Post by User23 »

gruez wrote: post #51
pg_bot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can blame the worst supreme court decision in the 21st century for that. (Kelo v City of New London) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

worst ? what about citizens united? how often is eminent domain abused for economic development, compared to how much favorable legislation was passed for corporations?

Citizens United merely acknowledged the existing status quo that it was impracticable to restrict clever campaign financing strategies. Kelo was far more odious because it created a new power for governments to seize property on a whim.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#58

Post by User23 »

gruez wrote: post #54
zdragnar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydro is clean in the sense that clean coal is clean. You need to measure and factor in the methane generated by the decaying biome behind the dam. We also have a lot of electrical cooperatives and other non-mega-corp electrical providers in the US. All in all, it isn't a great analogy.

>You need to measure and factor in the methane generated by the decaying biome behind the dam. how much are we talking about? does it work out to about the same as other fossil fuels, or order(s) of magnitude less? Also, is it possible to mitigate this by burning the vegetation prior to flooding the area?

Oxidizing the biocarbon to mitigate CO2 release? I think I see a bit of a flaw in that strategy.

Re: Foxconn’s empty buildings, empty factories, and empty promises in Wisconsin

#60

Post by teruakohatu »

est wrote: post #35

Would be funny to see the same article about TSMC be posted 3 years later.

I am not an American, but it is not hard for me to see the benefits of local chip manufacturer, for the same reason China is wanting chips made locally even if they cost more and require government subsidy.
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