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Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

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Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#81

Post by ozim »

ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

That is not always the case that there is no legal accountability:

https://europeangaming.eu/portal/latest-news/2018/09/11/2789...

In case you would like to know more about this kind of things check this: https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/76/

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#82

Post by ganoushoreilly »

FDSGSG wrote: post #79
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

The real issue with these indictments is that they put US operators in a tough position. These are military hackers following lawful orders. We are not dealing with criminal acts, but diplomatic issues. Foreign powers are more than capable of identifying individual US operators, but so far they've opted to not participate in this game. Here's an op-ed on the subject by an ex-NSA hacker https://www.thedailybeast.com/d…

It's a dicey situation. That said, Jake's not being completely truthful about the risks here. The office he worked in (TAO and Specifically the ROC), was a volunteer office, and it was made clear what your actions could lead to. Future travel restrictions and concerns were brought up for this exact reason, just as anyone working field work is given the explanation. In a more basic awareness, simply working a position that is cleared, has you go through plenty of discussions / classes / onboarding videos, that discuss the risks.

At the end of the day, he has to accept that he is accountable for his action as should others, it comes with the job.

I'm more concerned with how candid Jake is (as are most of is former co-workers), but that's another story for another day and not really related here...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#83

Post by jabedude »

IgorPartola wrote: post #80
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

I am much more confused by another point: isn’t the GRU a military department? Can you charge military personnel with a crime like this when they are acting in accordance with their orders? It feels like this is a cop out: the US knows that it is the Russian government that’s responsible but charges individual officers so as to not cause any kind of international stir. Even if these six were tried and convicted and s…

Yes, because they aren't performing traditional military operations. They were performing espionage and sabotage. The United States would prosecute these Russian military members if they were caught doing the same actions inside the US

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#84

Post by Fnoord »

supergirl wrote: post #77
Fnoord wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Dutch secret service MIVD caught a couple of GRU "diplomats" who were trying to do MITM (with a Pineapple) on e.g. the organisation in The Hague who were investigating MH17. One even had a taxi receipt with him from GRU HQ to Moscow airport. Meanwhile, the Dutch secret service AIVD had access to GRU HQ camera feeds. Before all that happened a high ranking Russian police officer got reprimanded (IIRC send to gulag…

what kind of taxi receipt shows the pick up point?

https://images.wired.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/18184147/...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#85

Post by Traster »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #24
pjc50 wrote: post #5

Keeping this to post under all those comments saying there was nothing to "Russiagate".

> there was nothing to "Russiagate". ...because this is a SOP for global super powers. I don't think that the Russians do anything that the Americans don't do better and more secretly. SOP= Standard Operating Procedure

I don't think this is good logic. If something appeared in Russian or Chinese newspapers that the state didn't approve of, then several reporters would turn up dead. You can hack Putin's Political Party, or some of his candidates in the lead up to an election, but it's not going to have the same effect of Putin hacking En Marche because En Marche is fighting a free and fair election, and Putin manufactures election results. There is no misinformation you can pump into a Russian election that will result in Putin losing an election because the election results are devised by Putin in the first place and any opposition leaders turning up with Novichok in their system.

America may do bad things, but these specific bad things generally aren't actually an attack vector on China or Russia.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#86

Post by fsagx »

sethrin wrote: post #75
fsagx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PR indictment of this sort accomplishes nothing besides making the DOJ look even more foolish or amateurish. The only thing interesting is to figure out whom it is supposed benefit. If anyone were to actually show up to face these charges, they will eventually be dismissed, as happened to two of the Mueller indictees. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/concord-case-...

Mentioning that those charges were dismissed without providing the reason or context seems rather incomplete, at best.

(That's what the link is for)

That they later dismiss the case strongly suggests that they never thought it would be prosecuted in the first place. Do you really believe that they thought there would be no discovery?

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#88

Post by nl »

fsagx wrote: post #46
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

A PR indictment of this sort accomplishes nothing besides making the DOJ look even more foolish or amateurish. The only thing interesting is to figure out whom it is supposed benefit. If anyone were to actually show up to face these charges, they will eventually be dismissed, as happened to two of the Mueller indictees. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/concord-case-...

To quote:

With the case set to go to trial next month, prosecutors recommended that the Justice Department drop the charges to preserve national security interests and prevent Russia from weaponizing delicate American law enforcement information, according to the official. The prosecutors also weighed the benefits of securing a guilty verdict against the companies, which cannot be meaningfully punished in the United States, against the risk of exposing national security secrets in order to win in court.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#89

Post by nradov »

ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

The US federal government has already imposed a wide range of sanctions on Russia. What other tangible consequences are you asking for?

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/details?prodcode=IF1...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#90

Post by cameldrv »

FDSGSG wrote: post #79
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

The real issue with these indictments is that they put US operators in a tough position. These are military hackers following lawful orders. We are not dealing with criminal acts, but diplomatic issues. Foreign powers are more than capable of identifying individual US operators, but so far they've opted to not participate in this game. Here's an op-ed on the subject by an ex-NSA hacker https://www.thedailybeast.com/d…

Then the foreign powers should declare war and they'll be subject to the Geneva convention. Covert action that is illegal in the target country has always made operatives subject to the local laws. If you want to be treated like a soldier, wear a uniform and fight in a declared war. Otherwise you're subject to the rules for spies.
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