Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

justice.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 118 posts

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#71

Post by Traster »

rland wrote: post #67
dx87 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also just be done as a thinly veiled threat to discourage people from working there. Even if nobody is arrested, the statement is basically saying "it doesn't matter where you are, or how secretive your work is, we can find you". I can imagine spouses and family would suggest they start looking for a different job after seeing the announcment.

But this is only six people. I'm sure they have hundreds or thousands of people working on "the America project" at the GRU. We nailed 6 of them. So what? Foreign intelligence agencies weed out a CIA spy every now and then, but that doesn't seem to deter the CIA.

Honestly, having worked for large companies, it's astonishing how few people are working on any given project. It's normally a handful of people actively contributing to any given specific project.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#72

Post by anonAndOn »

dredmorbius wrote: post #69
cameldrv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means that they can't visit countries with an extradition treaty with the U.S. This is not the biggest penalty ever but it's something.

Also assets, interests, and possibly more.

It's basically, "good luck taking the wife & kids on holiday outside of Russia!"

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#73

Post by mhh__ »

shadowgovt wrote: post #55
factsaresacred wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Russiagate" is commonly used to refer to the accusation that Trump colluded with the Russian state to determine the outcome of the 2016 election. The Special Counsel investigation found no evidence of collusion. Or is everything involving Russia now its own "Russiagate"?

It is not technically 'collusion' if one says, very publicly and loudly, "Won't someone rid me of this meddlesome priest?" And when agents of a foreign government with obvious vested interest in said priest's fate come to you with dirt on said priest, you take it and disseminate it. It is not technically collusion.

The Mueller report clearly left unfinished business (not an exoneration not indictment), and a senate report went further - if there wasn't collusion it's by a technicality rather than the spirit of the law.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#74

Post by dredmorbius »

factsaresacred wrote: post #23
pjc50 wrote: post #5

Keeping this to post under all those comments saying there was nothing to "Russiagate".

"Russiagate" is commonly used to refer to the accusation that Trump colluded with the Russian state to determine the outcome of the 2016 election. The Special Counsel investigation found no evidence of collusion. Or is everything involving Russia now its own "Russiagate"?

Collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability found in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office’s focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy as defined in federal law.

-- Reort on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

It's not possible to come to a legal conclusion on a question which lacks a legal definition.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#75

Post by sethrin »

fsagx wrote: post #46
ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

A PR indictment of this sort accomplishes nothing besides making the DOJ look even more foolish or amateurish. The only thing interesting is to figure out whom it is supposed benefit. If anyone were to actually show up to face these charges, they will eventually be dismissed, as happened to two of the Mueller indictees. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/politics/concord-case-...

Mentioning that those charges were dismissed without providing the reason or context seems rather incomplete, at best.

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#76

Post by rconti »

cameldrv wrote: post #59
dx87 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also just be done as a thinly veiled threat to discourage people from working there. Even if nobody is arrested, the statement is basically saying "it doesn't matter where you are, or how secretive your work is, we can find you". I can imagine spouses and family would suggest they start looking for a different job after seeing the announcment.

It also means that they can't visit countries with an extradition treaty with the U.S. This is not the biggest penalty ever but it's something.

And it's even more of 'something' when you're in a country with a questionable economy and future.

I'd have to think if you're an adequately-compensated-but-not-connected person in Russia, you'd be keeping a Plan B in your back pocket "just in case".

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#77

Post by supergirl »

Fnoord wrote: post #51
kasperni wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how individuals are identified when we are talking about state sponsored hackers?

The Dutch secret service MIVD caught a couple of GRU "diplomats" who were trying to do MITM (with a Pineapple) on e.g. the organisation in The Hague who were investigating MH17. One even had a taxi receipt with him from GRU HQ to Moscow airport. Meanwhile, the Dutch secret service AIVD had access to GRU HQ camera feeds. Before all that happened a high ranking Russian police officer got reprimanded (IIRC send to gulag…

what kind of taxi receipt shows the pick up point?

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#78

Post by FDSGSG »

ciarannolan wrote: post #34
kasperni wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how individuals are identified when we are talking about state sponsored hackers?

In the past they have texted specific GRU agents on their personal phones: https://www.wired.com/story/cyber-command-ira-strike-sends-s... > As The New York Times reported last October, Cyber Command operators sent direct messages to individual Russian staffers that they had identified as involved in election interference, and were tracking their activity. The Post reports that the IRA was troubled enough by those me…

IRA is not GRU

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#79

Post by FDSGSG »

ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

The real issue with these indictments is that they put US operators in a tough position. These are military hackers following lawful orders. We are not dealing with criminal acts, but diplomatic issues.

Foreign powers are more than capable of identifying individual US operators, but so far they've opted to not participate in this game.

Here's an op-ed on the subject by an ex-NSA hacker https://www.thedailybeast.com/dont-punish-a-north-korean-hac...

Re: Six GRU Officers Charged in Connection with Worldwide Deployment of Malware

#80

Post by IgorPartola »

ineedasername wrote: post #40

I'm torn when it comes to the utility of making public indictments of this sort when the truth is there will never be any arrest or trial. Making them public lets Russia know we're aware of their actions, which in turn may drive them to greater efforts to make these actions harder to detect and therefore harder to defend against. I also wonder if making these public, detrimental and unnecessary, is just a cynical plo…

I am much more confused by another point: isn’t the GRU a military department? Can you charge military personnel with a crime like this when they are acting in accordance with their orders?

It feels like this is a cop out: the US knows that it is the Russian government that’s responsible but charges individual officers so as to not cause any kind of international stir.

Even if these six were tried and convicted and sent to prison, nothing would change since I’m sure there are others who could take their place. The directive won’t change, just the people carrying it out.

Post reply on HN