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When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

nytimes.com

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Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you and your brother are highly intelligent and maybe didn't really need school to absorb the stuff you needed. I wonder how that approach would work with a more average child.

Intelligence is not hereditary for the most part, and there's a huge environmental component to it. Clearly this household had the right mix of freedom and strictness to encourage development of creative intelligent thinking. Probably rubs off of adults with same attitudes. Of course it's not 100% I'm pretty sure if OP had more siblings one of them would be bound to be dumb as a rock.

Your comment seems at odds with the current research:

“the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#22
post #9

Learning of (keyword of) concepts and ideas is fun but the reason schools exist is because most learning is a grind. Learning to draw well, learning a language, learning an instrument, and even learning math and logic require going through the grind of learning and repetition. The grind is only harder if you don't have a good book or teacher because the practice you do could potentially be actively harmful (or useles…

It's only a 'grind' if you don't enjoy the process though, right? If you're getting good at doing something you love because you love doing it so much, I don't think 'grind' is a word you'd use to describe that time consuming process. I think 'grind' is caused by a disconnect between what the learner is being made to do and what they want to do. Grind can therefore be reduced by providing people with the opportunity…

>It's only a 'grind' if you don't enjoy the process though, right?

That's the thing though, even with something you enjoy you will, or should hopefully, hit 'the grind'. That point where it gets hard and you force yourself to keep going even through.the parts you don't enjoy.

School forces you to do this, if you're teaching yourself something, you need to force yourself to do this.

I can't count the number of times i've heard someone say something like

'I tried learning/doing this new thing and it was fun for a bit but it ended up being way harder than I thought.'

And that's usually the point where they've given up or moved on.

But that's usually the point where learning breakthroughs happen and getting through the grind tends to cement those new facts or that new activity better.

That's usually the point where it starts being fun again too, until the next hump to grind through.

It's like an old nintendo game or something. One of those really hard ones that forces you to replay the same thing over and over again just to gain the tiniest bit of progress. Even though the game's probably fun, that's the point where people start throwing controllers and stuff. Yet when you get past those hard sections and make some progress. Suddenly, you feel good and have fun again.

Learning things is very much the same process. Even things you enjoy. The secret is to push yourself through the less fun parts.

Just quickly too, more of an aside, I feel like modern games lack this aspect and i think it's a big part of why many people complain about modern games. They don't stimulate and teach you through failure and repitition, there's usually no consequences, you have no breakthrough 'Aha I can do this now' moments, there's no learning or lessons to be had. Just mindless progression that never really feels like progress.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#23

I was homeschooled until the age of around 10, and then my family adopted a new approach called "lifestyle of learning", which is just another way of saying "unschooling". Basically, I was allowed to skip schoolwork, as long as I was doing something productive. I hated schoolwork, so I started spending all my spare time tinkering with stuff on the computer. I wasn't allowed to play video games (since they aren't prod…

I can see homeschooling being potentially more interesting/engaging for a certain kind of student after the basics are out of the way, but this:

> He didn't even learn how to read until he was around 10.

to me, is fucking terrifying.

All of the people I know who did better on their own than in a classroom were able to do so because they could gobble up half a library in a weekend. I think you need to be able to read abnormally well for this unschooling concept to work as intended, and so good reading skills is one of the few things that I absolutely would not compromise on.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is not hereditary for the most part, and there's a huge environmental component to it. Clearly this household had the right mix of freedom and strictness to encourage development of creative intelligent thinking. Probably rubs off of adults with same attitudes. Of course it's not 100% I'm pretty sure if OP had more siblings one of them would be bound to be dumb as a rock.

Your comment seems at odds with the current research: “the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

But is IQ (beyond a minimum level) really correlated with the type of success being discussed here?

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#26
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you and your brother are highly intelligent and maybe didn't really need school to absorb the stuff you needed. I wonder how that approach would work with a more average child.

Intelligence is not hereditary for the most part, and there's a huge environmental component to it. Clearly this household had the right mix of freedom and strictness to encourage development of creative intelligent thinking. Probably rubs off of adults with same attitudes. Of course it's not 100% I'm pretty sure if OP had more siblings one of them would be bound to be dumb as a rock.

Source? I'm pretty sure intelligence is well over half hereditary. AFAIK, most of what we can do to increase people's intelligence is make sure they get proper nutrition as kids. Over that, we can at most spend lots of money on educational programs for really small increases in IQ (though of course education is not just about IQ).

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is not hereditary for the most part, and there's a huge environmental component to it. Clearly this household had the right mix of freedom and strictness to encourage development of creative intelligent thinking. Probably rubs off of adults with same attitudes. Of course it's not 100% I'm pretty sure if OP had more siblings one of them would be bound to be dumb as a rock.

Your comment seems at odds with the current research: “the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

He might be of the opinion that IQ != intelligence, or that IQ is a bad measurement of intelligence.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#28
I am sure unschooling works out well for some people. I appreciate giving students some flexibility, but I think there really is a standard core that most people should learn.

I went to a good engineering school for college, but they also require everyone to take 3 years of history, 3 years of english, 2 semesters of a foreign language, a psychology course, ...

If it was left up to me I would not have taken most of those classes, and I suffered through many of them, but I think they were an important part of my education, and I am glad I came out of school knowing more than the engineering that I would have picked for myself.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My story is similar to that of the parent comment and I would say the most important thing is to be supportive of the activities and interests that your future children are driven towards. If they're into computers, let them tinker with computers. If they like to take things apart, give them your old electrical components and teach them about electrical safety and soldering. If they like making things, show them some…

Thanks. May I ask what its like for job interviews?

What do you mean?

If you mean for entry level service level stuff, like high schoolers would take, I can't speak to it (I couldn't really find anything when I looked, but I think that was attributable to the general difficulty of finding a first job. No one asked me what high school I was attending/had attended), but for post-college, no one ever asked me about high school.

As to getting into college, I had to take the SATs, same as everyone. I did better than most. I started at community college (which I believe everyone should do, both because financially it makes sense, and because it helps acclimate you to the realities involved. For home/unschoolers, having deadlines and having to learn to 'work the system' are both necessary), then went to university. Graduated highest honors.

Re: When You Get into Unschooling, It’s Almost Like a Religion

#30
post #9

Learning of (keyword of) concepts and ideas is fun but the reason schools exist is because most learning is a grind. Learning to draw well, learning a language, learning an instrument, and even learning math and logic require going through the grind of learning and repetition. The grind is only harder if you don't have a good book or teacher because the practice you do could potentially be actively harmful (or useles…

It's only a 'grind' if you don't enjoy the process though, right? If you're getting good at doing something you love because you love doing it so much, I don't think 'grind' is a word you'd use to describe that time consuming process. I think 'grind' is caused by a disconnect between what the learner is being made to do and what they want to do. Grind can therefore be reduced by providing people with the opportunity…

I've gotten good at a few things in life that required a "grind." The violin is the clearest example. Getting decent requires an hour or so a week -- you can generally fart around and play whatever's accessible to your skill level. Good requires an hour or two per day, of deliberate and focused practice. People don't play études for fun. Excellence requires several hours per day. Even Itzhak Perlman describes his practice regimen as tedious, and I once heard him say that he practices while watching TV, to alleviate the boredom. Paganini, on the other hand, played all day to forestall his father's physical abuse.

I was "good," for a time, but pursuit of excellence never met my cost benefit analysis

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