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Chess’s Cheating Crisis

theguardian.com

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Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#111

Post by kgran »

the-dude wrote: post #69
wildmanx wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's depending on what you consider a "performance enhancing substance". With basic food and drinks, we surely all agree that that's not the case. But the line starts to get blurry with supplements. Whey? Creatine? Caffeine? Supplement stores are full of this stuff, and a lot is really just a waste of money and exists to milk the amateur gym bro cash cow. But some of those things help. And eventually you cross the…

Let's take hormones. Once upon a time there is an athlete who has naturally high level of certain hormone. Research is conducted and the anti-doping agency moves up the level of how much the hormone is legal to have in the blood. Now all competitors will take additional hormones to reach, but not cross said level. As long as this works, they think of themselves as not doping and levelling the playing field. But they…

See:

World Athletics Female Eligibility Regulations on testosterone levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Athletics_Female_Eligibi...

Case of Caster Semenya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#112

Post by dalbasal »

rossdavidh wrote: post #106
dalbasal wrote: post #18

“ Paranoia has become the culture ” This. For every actual cheating incident, there are many paranoid suspicions. Chess demands an intense focus, and this makes players react emotionally (see chess tantrums). Paranoia is one of these reactions. This "culture of paranoia" is generally pervasive, not just in chess. Once a paranoia inducing phenomenon (like cheating) exists, the paranoia pervades. People know fb & googl…

Great point, which I am totally ignoring to point out that I think you meant "2020's" instead of "1920's". But great point, though, about the larger issue.

Aye. 2020s

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#113

Post by gadders »

1-more wrote: post #86
gadders wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the tested amateur powerlifting federations, you do occasionally see people get popped after a urine test. EG: https://www.britishpowerlifting.org/news/drug-test-results

What bugs me about this is that there is untested powerlifting with better prizes. Go compete there if you want to take PEDs!! Of all the sports PL is the most honest in that it has that outlet at least, but it of course varies by country. The steroids taboo in some countries might discourage the creation of untested federations. That could end up having the wrong effect of encouraging athletes on the fence about pun…

It's completely stupid because all you will get is a trophy worth probably max ~£20 and some bragging rights. I could understand it more if it was for £100k prize money. Totally pointless.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#114

Post by dalbasal »

asah wrote: post #102
dalbasal wrote: post #18

“ Paranoia has become the culture ” This. For every actual cheating incident, there are many paranoid suspicions. Chess demands an intense focus, and this makes players react emotionally (see chess tantrums). Paranoia is one of these reactions. This "culture of paranoia" is generally pervasive, not just in chess. Once a paranoia inducing phenomenon (like cheating) exists, the paranoia pervades. People know fb & googl…

Social version of Gresham's Law? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

Hmm, maybe at a total collapse stage.

Gresham's law for chess would be noncheaters leave when cheaters move in. All that's left on Facebook is conspiracy bots chattering to eachother and suchlike.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#115

Post by anonAndOn »

gadders wrote: post #52
noneeeed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a lot of online conversations recently where the default assumption is that every Olympic sprinter, every cyclist or swimmet, basically every elite athlete is doping. It's pretty sad that we are in a world where you can work incredibly hard to make the most of natural talents and many people will assume you cheated.

I guess it depends on what you make of information like this: "Of the 50 fastest men's 100m sprint times ever, only 15 have been run by an athlete NOT banned for drugs. All 15 were by Usain Bolt." https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/1164654855329329152...

Don't worry, it will be all 50 eventually. The 100m is often decided by photo finishes and yet, Usain Bolt has had to look behind him AND slow down before crossing the finish so that he's not too far ahead of the others.[0]

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-urnlaJpOA

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#116

Post by threedots »

Pulcinella wrote: post #68
nix23 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>basically every elite athlete is doping. Yes this! You have 3 doping levels from cheapest to really expansive: 3: Silver (the doping that is known and detectable) 2: Gold (known and probably detectable but often combined with additional substance to "wash it out" faster or hide it behind other stuff like "legal" painkillers etc) 1: Platinum (doping that is not detectable in the next 5 years "seal of proof by laborat…

I want to see a documentary that is basically what Icarus was going to be before it turned into being about international politics: doping by “weekend warriors” in amateur sports. There is a lot of paranoia in the running community (for example) that even local municipal marathons are being won by amateurs doping (not to mention some people running with those Nike “Vaporfly” shoes with the carbon fiber plate in them.…

Depends on the sport. The uplift from PED usage in certain sports is obscene. I would guess that most top level amateurs in strength sports are doping or have doped, and traditional doping indicators (e.g. FFMI >25) suggest the same. There are fewer good indicators in endurance and skill sports to work with.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#117

Post by georgiecasey »

I used to cheat on chess.com. It started as a small bit of cheating here and there, just checking every now and then if the move I was going to make was the best. Of course, the computer always had a better move and then I examine the line and told myself I probably would have thought of that! Like a drug, it escalated and I was checking moves all the time. I was never caught but I was ashamed and just stopped playing. Actually, more than ashamed, cheating took all the joy out of it as it felt like a job, switching tabs, and you don't get the dopamine hit when you think of a great line yourself. I uninstalled scid vs pc and opened a lichess account and never cheated on that. Though lichess tells me loads of opponents I've played have been banned for cheating. I never suspect a thing.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#118

Post by La1n »

torben-friis wrote: post #29
3np wrote: post #12

> Sarah Longson, a former British ladies’ champion Athletic sports aside, does anyone know the motivation between gender-segregated leagues in games like chess?

I vaguely remember some studies about women underperforming when they perceive their opponent as a man (even playing online). A quick google search might get you some articles on the matter, or the papers themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat

In situations where you are expected to perform worse due to a stereotype one tends to perform worse.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#119

Post by smnc »

viraptor wrote: post #14
smnc wrote: post #6

A similar thing has been happening in online contract bridge. https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/the-2020-online-cheat... https://bridgewinners.com/article/view/confession-of-a-self-...

Wait... You can log in to your own online bridge game and see all the hands? Did anyone expect this to not result in blatant cheating? I'm surprised it's an option at all.

It is possible to disable kibitzing for a table (or a tournament, or a team match etc.), but kibitzing is a feature. It's often both educational and entertaining to kibitz high profile players and participate in the play commentary and banter.

The downside is that people can kibitz their own table (if kibitzing is allowed) using an alt account. Yes, it's a risk, but there are lots of ways to cheat online. It's trivial to cheat using out of band communication with your partner, as a sibling comment points out, or use a computer program to calculate odds if cheating without the knowledge of your partner.

So the whole thing is built on an honor system.

Re: Chess’s Cheating Crisis

#120

Post by medium_burrito »

noneeeed wrote: post #27
dalbasal wrote: post #18

“ Paranoia has become the culture ” This. For every actual cheating incident, there are many paranoid suspicions. Chess demands an intense focus, and this makes players react emotionally (see chess tantrums). Paranoia is one of these reactions. This "culture of paranoia" is generally pervasive, not just in chess. Once a paranoia inducing phenomenon (like cheating) exists, the paranoia pervades. People know fb & googl…

I've seen a lot of online conversations recently where the default assumption is that every Olympic sprinter, every cyclist or swimmet, basically every elite athlete is doping. It's pretty sad that we are in a world where you can work incredibly hard to make the most of natural talents and many people will assume you cheated.

It's hard to assume anything else. If you are not cheating, you are not trying hard enough to win.

If you look at a chart of when EPO became available, and all those good knowledgeable DDR sport med docs became available on the free market, there's this discontinuous drop in world records fro pretty much all endurance sports.

Notice the discontinuity around 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10,000_metres_world_record_pro... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5000_metres_world_record_progr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_1500_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_records_and_sta...

You'll see similar changes with the introduction of synthetic testosterone in weight lifting records, and the physical appearance of the top bodybuilders.

EDIT: And this ignores "mechanical" doping in cycling- where you stick an electric motor on the bike. We've suspected it for a while at the pro ranks, and got confirmation when a small fry got nabbed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femke_Van_den_Driessche

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