Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 163 posts

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#141

Post by meowface »

lightbendover wrote: post #140
meowface wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watch and very much enjoy his Twitch streams, and he's definitely and obviously very intelligent, but I'd say not necessarily more than a top ~70th percentile HN commenter who works in software engineering. I don't think he's necessarily a genius, but just super curious and motivated and confident in his ability to learn anything if he dedicates enough time and practice. You can see his learning and motivation proc…

With every halfway decent engineer you personally know, go compete in a major competition he won by himself in his early 20s and then repeat your statement. The archives are all online, take your time.

I'm probably biased because I competed in those competitions in college and do know some people who did very well (though of course not as well as him). He's definitely a > 99th percentile RE and hacker, to be sure. I was just talking about raw cognitive ability, but he absolutely may very well be > 99th percentile there as well.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#142

Post by woeirua »

p1esk wrote: post #97
woeirua wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a legitimate criticism. I can't for the life of me, figure out why manufacturers are still artificially segmenting their products with software. Some cars have had fairly capable lane tracing since the 2019 MY, and others still don't for the 2021 MY.

However, now that I have the adaptive cruise control, I get anxious that I might get into an accident when I think it's enabled while it isn't. Another concern is that it won't be able to apply braking hard enough when a collision is imminent - in such situation it flashes a red warning on the display and sounds an alarm prompting me to brake, but because I haven't been actively adjusting speed with my foot, it might…

At least with manufacturers you know who to sue if something goes wrong. I'm pretty sure that Comma has set this all up to shed as much liability as possible since they make you flash the unit with the right software.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#144

Post by ska »

bipson wrote: post #132
ska wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are missing the point; perhaps there are bunch of kids just fiddling with their ECU on an otherwise stock car where you live. In my experience though, tuning is mostly done in conjunction with changing other parts (headers, ports, cams, add a turbo, fuel kit etc.) so the manufacturers long consideration of the best balance for the stock engine is no longer relevant. You have to retune to get proper perfor…

Let me try to explain: Where I live, cars need certification/a license to be operated. The manufacturer does that for you, so you can obtain the required document quite easily for your car. Aftermarket parts are regulated - you can't install what you want, it needs to be certified for your specific make and model (and motor variant, etc.) - otherwise your car is not legal anymore. This applies to chip tuning as well.…

Ok, we live in different places and have different experience.

Most places I have lived in north america you are relatively free to install whatever after market parts you want, including things you have fabricated or modified yourself and people do some pretty extensive builds. That just doesn't work without changing the tune also.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#145

Post by seg_lol »

dheera wrote: post #114
seg_lol wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android and iOS auto, do you want these systems to attach this easily to the car? Safety critical CAN bus messages should be signed.

Android and iOS auto don't have access to the CAN bus that can control steering. They may have access to a physically separate CAN bus that controls the entertainment system and air conditioning. There are normally multiple buses in a car.

Is there a legal requirement that the CAN buses be air-gapped?

What has changed since https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#146

Post by bitbyt3r »

ezconnect wrote: post #69
saddlerustle wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenPilot doesn't "trick" the steering system using "false sensor data". The steering controller just accepts messages for commanding steering over CAN bus. The same messages are used by the stock ADAS system. Also, this bus is not usually exposed to the OBD port, so OpenPilot just connects to the same port the stock ADAS ECU uses.

OpenPilot pretends it's the ADAS and some cars you can pass the torque sensor on the custom serial bus used by the cars. There's not much difference in tricking or pretending or overwhelming the serial bus with another data message to make the steering system respond to OpenPilot.

The message it's sending is distinct from the torque sensor reading. There is a dedicated message ID for automated steering inputs, usually used for lane keeping assist and for jiggling the wheel as a departure warning.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#147

Post by bitbyt3r »

bipson wrote: post #118
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AutoPilot disengages if you try to take over the wheel, it's one of the basic features that is available. The only instance where you are steering is on the new lane switch (turn on blinker, check lane, depart from current lane)

Are you talking about Tesla AutoPilot? This system is meant for cars without level 2 driver assist, so not for Teslas. Further, the system has no control over what "disengages" in the car itself - it is sending bogus sensor inputs to elicit a reaction according to level 2 driver assistance. Thus, if it sends such bogus inputs and fails at doing this "reliably", it will result in misbehaving steering, breaking, etc. w…

Openpilot uses an embedded controller that is connected to the phone via usb to control communication on the CAN busses. It is what enforces the disengagement, and the code on it follows the MISRA standard. The phone can send random commands and you should still be able to maintain control of the vehicle.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#148

Post by bitbyt3r »

p1esk wrote: post #97
woeirua wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a legitimate criticism. I can't for the life of me, figure out why manufacturers are still artificially segmenting their products with software. Some cars have had fairly capable lane tracing since the 2019 MY, and others still don't for the 2021 MY.

However, now that I have the adaptive cruise control, I get anxious that I might get into an accident when I think it's enabled while it isn't. Another concern is that it won't be able to apply braking hard enough when a collision is imminent - in such situation it flashes a red warning on the display and sounds an alarm prompting me to brake, but because I haven't been actively adjusting speed with my foot, it might…

At least personally (as someone driving openpilot pretty regularly) I'm a lot happier to trust openpilot than the stock system in my car since openpilot watches the driver and nags you (and eventually disengages) if you don't pay attention to the road. With the stock system I have to trust myself more.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#149

Post by bitbyt3r »

azinman2 wrote: post #115

L4/L5 or crash. Anything below is dangerous because of the propensity for humans to rely on what seems to be working the majority of the time and artificially trust it, especially with a population trained to need to check their phones. We saw this with the infamous Uber training driver crash in AZ, we saw this with the Apple employee in the Tesla, and we'll continue to see this over and over again until we can final…

One major differentiator for openpilot is the active driver monitoring. If you keep checking your phone while it's activated it will disengage and eventually even refuse to engage. Other systems just make you nudge the wheel, but openpilot uses the front facing camera to watch your eyes.

Re: We Tested Comma AI's OpenPilot

#150

Post by woeirua »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #98
mellosouls wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really hard to see why you would buy this system for $1100 if you can just buy a new car and get this all for free A key phrase here is "just buy a new car". You might be able to afford that but most can't. I don't know what Comma AI's market strategy is but I would imagine there is a huge potential aftermarket for gizmos like this in capable older motors, with that growing as time moves on and the enabling tech…

The only manufacturer who is doing better than Comma is Tesla. Every single manufacturer (including Audi and Cadillac) are years behind Comma in terms of performance.

Is that true though? I know that Hyundai at least has demonstrated a true level 4 system in Korea. It hasn't made its way to any production vehicles yet, but I suspect that's partially because the regulatory regime is still up in the air. Part of the real risk with releasing something right now is that you'll end up with a system that is not compliant with whatever the regulations eventually require.
Post reply on HN