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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#731

Post by runarberg »

mlang23 wrote: post #706
bryan0 wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also can't block it for my daughter because she has school assignments that involve watching YouTube videos. Our school uses http://www.viewpure.com/ to avoid this. Also, I agree you don't even need to watch a political video to see political garbage on youtube. Last night they showed me some bizarre political conspiracy ad saying Pelosi and Harris are going to invoke the 25th amendment on Biden to make Harris th…

I regularily see shady ads as well. This is the actual outrage IMO. Before going off and create a corporate censorship network, they should at least apply some "standars" to what they let through on the ad side. But I guess it is all too late. The Circle proofs to be a pretty prophetic book.

I never see ads on YouTube. I think my ad blocker is sufficiently good at blocking them for me.

You deserve better then to be shown ads.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#732

Post by dx87 »

gundmc wrote: post #668
wtetzner wrote: post #498

This would be great in a universe where it was possible to know the truth with absolute certainty. Scientists disagree about this stuff, so how is YouTube in a position to determine what's misinformation and what isn't? Why is censorship suddenly so in vogue now?

The article mentions specifically conspiracy theories saying covid vaccines will kill you or be used to implant tracking microchips. I don't think it takes a scientist to call that misinformation.

The article also says that they will remove videos that contradict the people they've decided are trusted experts.

> YouTube says it already removes content that disputes the existence or transmission of COVID-19, promotes medically unsubstantiated methods of treatment, discourages people from seeking medical care or explicitly disputes health authorities’ guidance on self-isolation or social distancing.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#733

Post by dtech »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #549
dtech wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so everyone should be allowed to broadcast, promote and advertise: "all white people are inherently evil and criminal and should all be exterminated, go out and shoot every and kill every white person you see!"?

With speech, obviously there’s going to be a line after which you descend into madness and that line is legally speaking usually drawn at directly inciting violence. That’s what is considered “spreading a harmful message”. But by censoring COVID, Youtube is moving this line quite a bit, to a point where we’re talking nowhere near as harmful messages. The point is that unlike with someone saying “kill people”, here it…

There's more things banned. I cannot put an ad on TV that all gay people or Christians should be fired and shunned from society, even though that's not inciting violence.

My point was more that there's limits to free speech when it's harmful as a response to someone who said that everything should always be allowed everywhere.

You can debate whether that should include Covid misinformation and to what extent, but I would say unsubstantiated claims like vaccines will make you infertile are harmful to public health and are definitely candidates.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#734

Post by beervirus »

cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

> Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it.

I dunno, there's value in suggesting related content. If I subscribe to a woodworking channel, and Youtube suggests other woodworking content... that doesn't seem like a problem.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#735

Post by cwhiz »

theptip wrote: post #698
cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

How is this different from the outrage factories of the tabloid news? Is YouTube’s approach to extremist content different from a tabloid in any way other than efficiency/reach? Are we really complaining about a basic aspect of human psychology rather than a business innovation from these companies? If we smash YouTube, what about the tabloid press? How do we actually regulate this stuff in a consistent way? (And how…

I won't accidentally end up on some outrage tabloid news site if I start at AP News and start clicking articles. There is nothing wrong with outrage tabloid news existing, but it shouldn't be something that I accidentally happen upon while browsing normal news. YouTube will just send you to extremist crap if you keep watching suggested videos long enough.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#736

Post by dragonwriter »

dtech wrote: post #733
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With speech, obviously there’s going to be a line after which you descend into madness and that line is legally speaking usually drawn at directly inciting violence. That’s what is considered “spreading a harmful message”. But by censoring COVID, Youtube is moving this line quite a bit, to a point where we’re talking nowhere near as harmful messages. The point is that unlike with someone saying “kill people”, here it…

There's more things banned. I cannot put an ad on TV that all gay people or Christians should be fired and shunned from society, even though that's not inciting violence. My point was more that there's limits to free speech when it's harmful as a response to someone who said that everything should always be allowed everywhere. You can debate whether that should include Covid misinformation and to what extent, but I w…

> I cannot put an ad on TV that all gay people or Christians should be fired and shunned from society

You absolutely can both legally, and practically at least the first and probably the second. Heck, the former has been part of the main editorial content on some TV outlets, not just advertising.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#737

Post by janoside »

cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

We cannot expect any actor (human or otherwise) to act against their own best interest. Google/Youtube, an entity with incentives, will act to maximize it's share of your time spent with them - it cannot function any other way, lest a competitor does that job better and they are destroyed/bought. We can wish for the underlying dynamics to be different, but they are what they are. All of society is currently lost in hopeless battles, fighting the "tides" - in this case underlying incentive structures.

You can wish for legislation to save you from your outrage - to shatter these companies into little pieces. But legislation doesn't change underlying incentives. In fact, legislation nearly universally distorts incentives further from what you wish them to be. For example, in this case, fear of legislative action against "Big Tech" having too much power/influence/misinformation-potential, is likely the underlying cause for their inclination toward censorship.

The classic Walmart South Park episode is a nice visual syllogism for this idea.

I offer no solutions at the level of "society", but at the individual level I offer you to consider that "outrage" is a waste of your time and your emotion. Easier said than done, I know.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#738

Post by arethuza »

Karunamon wrote: post #639
jackhack wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Almost free speech is censorship by another name. Working "pretty well?" Sure, unless one tries to talk about things that really matter and strays outside the dotted lines of permissibility. Some topics are verboten. When you say "other side of the ocean," I assume you're talking about Europe. Try to discuss the muslim rape gangs in the UK. Try to discuss the surge in grenade attacks and many-fold increase…

Indeed. There's a Chomsky quote that fits here: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on t…

That reminds me of the Overton Window:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

In fact, that quote is on the Wikipedia page!

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#739

Post by VBprogrammer »

trident1000 wrote: post #649
VBprogrammer wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BREAKING NEWS: trident1000 is a child molester; found with 6000 indecent images of children on his PC. For the record this is intended in jest

If you want free speech you need to learn to live with free speech. That means not believing everything you see, critically thinking, and actually vetting the sources yourself. Its a societal process that plays out over time. The answer is not to have content oligarchs that decide what is truth and can be seen. Statements like this eventually are just seen as noise and ignored as people look for verifiable truth via…

Firstly, thanks for taking my comment in the manner it was intended. I was slightly concerned it might have gone down badly.

I take your point but I think you are brave to rely on the common sense of the entire world to protect you from false or misleading claims against you. Having seen a friend being roasted in the "mainstream media" with a story which was heavily biased against her, and seeing the venomous messages sent to her in the aftermath, I think I'm ok with some limits on free speech.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#740

Post by runarberg »

_greim_ wrote: post #693
cwhiz wrote: post #631

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is the problem! Create a new account, watch any political video, and then click through the suggestions. Keep clicking through the suggestions and in hour you will be on some extremist nonsense. YouTube is the source of this problem, and their solution is censorship? It's ridiculous. Show people the videos they have subscribed or searched for, and that's it. The majority of people don…

The YouTube suggestion algorithm is also amazing. As a hobbyist I find so much cool stuff completely unrelated to politics. I hope they can fix the bad without ruining the good, is what I'm saying.

Agree. YouTube has some great content on it. Channels that I regularly follow include Technology Connections[1] (despite not being that much into electronics), Summoning Salt[2] (despite not playing video games), PBS Eons[3]. There is also some good political content there (including Lindsey Ellis[4] and vlogbrothers[5]).

Despite this YouTube really needs to wake up to the fact that some of it’s content is really toxic and potentially dangerous, and that it potentially suggests this toxic content to an unsuspecting audience. Optimally it wouldn’t do that, while still suggesting some of the great content there.

1: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtUbO6rBht0daVIOGML3c8w

2: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy0tKL1T7wFoYcxCe0xjN6Q

3: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzR-rom72PHN9Zg7RML9EbA

4: https://www.youtube.com/user/chezapoctube

5: https://www.youtube.com/user/vlogbrothers

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