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Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

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Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#161
post #143
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that we usually discuss things in extremes. We don't need to know how to sew our own clothes, but knowing how to mend them is useful. Do we really want to live in a world where we toss out a shirt simply because a button falls off? We don't need to know how to build a home, but knowing how to fix simple problems is useful. Do we really want to live in a world where we have to call in an electrician eve…

It's not extremes. Modern society is designed so that we don't have to do any of those things (in extreme or even in between), we just throw money (that we generated doing one specific job) at our problems.

It's a strong point. Personally, I find it both hard to argue against and at the same time extremely dehumanizing.

Related to this is the phenomenon of turning everything into service. Why would you own things and accept responsibility for maintaining them, if you could just throw money at the service provider and have the thing be present when it's needed? Of course the thing will be extremely limited in what you can do with it, subject to Terms&Conditions, but why would you want to do anything non-standard with stuff? There's always another service you can throw money at to solve the same problem.

What's the end-game here? That we specialize into sub-species of humans, forever stuck in one role, with zero autonomy? No longer building wealth, we'll only be allocating the flow of money - from what Society gives us in reward for our work, straight to Services of said Society? Will we become specialized cells of the meta-multicellular organism Society becomes?

I can see how we're on the path towards that reality, and I absolutely hate it.

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#162

Honestly I think a lot of ideas about where to go with Desktop OSs these days are just complexity fetishist slashfiction. I don't think we need new complicated paradigms, instead we should take a look at our history of what worked and what didn't and build based a simple combination of good ideas we already have. My opinion, short version, hastily written, and incomplete: 1) Applications are self-contained objects th…

All of these points sound like macos apart from 4, possibly 6 and definitely 7.

Your home directory is your profile/account (what's the difference on a single computer?).

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't necessarily mean "learn to code" in such explicit manner with my original comment. More like learn technology itself and some strong basics of how everything works so people would be more equipped to grok this new world we're living in. To get a driver's license you need some basic knowledge of car internals. I'd argue that computers are infinitely more important in our society than a car yet majority of peo…

The problem is that we live in a world and society where you're expected to know a lot about a lot. And we just keep adding to the pile we need to learn. You need to know how to sew or mend your clothes, you need to know how to tinker with your electrical system or plumbing, with your car, with your electronics, know your stuff around a kitchen. And the list can really go on and on. Now you need to know how to code .…

> Any reasonable definition of "coding" is creating something.

Not necessarily creating something. The OP really did shoot themself in the foot by using the word "coding", where what they most likely meant was doing simple alterations to computing systems that require understanding some basic control flow structures - conditionals and loops. Things like, "I seem to be doing the same repetitive sequence of steps 100x a day, let me automate this somewhat". Think Tasker and bash, not JavaScript and C++.

> this piling up of expectations just lead people to give up and pay for services rather than learn all that

A small bit of knowledge can save you a lot of money in services. I can get why wealthy wouldn't care, but most people aren't wealthy. Also, I feel there's more pressure from the sales&marketing departments of services than from modern society's demands on free time.

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#164
post #118

In my workflow all I need is a good window manager. The one on MacOS is not good even with extra apps (Rectangle). There is too much degree of freedom in moving a window pixel by pixel. I want it to automatically lay out the windows. The other problem is a lot of things open are Chrome tabs nested within a Chrome window. I wish there were no tabs and the OS window manager would automatically surface the right tabs an…

Try Amethyst: https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst

It's a great window tiling manager.

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind using Linux? It's been my experience that it's done everything I wanted it to well. Linux on desktop has changed. I hated it too in the 2000s. Now mostly everything just works, KDE can look and feel like any desktop including OSX. Very reliable. You'll find a pirated version of XP running as you wish soon since the leak of the XP source code not GPL though.

I almost just spat out my tea. I've tried to move to Linux once a year since 2005. A few weekends ago I did my annual attempt and had a go at Elementary OS (live USB wouldn't boot, gave up), MX Linux (couldn't get sound, wouldn't boot after installing nvidia drivers), Manjaro XFCE (kept locking up, requiring a power cycle) and Pop OS. Pop fared best, but even then I had all kinds of showstopper problems with monitor…

Sadly I have about the same experience as you with my last attempt 2 weeks ago.

I started wit KDE Neon, but it failed to install drivers for my Nvidia card and proceeded to sabotage my sound drivers in the process (they were working fine before).

I then switched to ElementaryOS which did fine with my Nvidia but every time it played a sound it would send a loud crack in my speakers.

Back on Windows which I feel a prisoner of. The thing is sending data all over the internet, I can't even write a diary because I feel like I live in the USSR where I have to pay attention to everything I say or the KGB will get me (to be clear it's just a metaphor, I understand I can write whatever I want on my PC without consequences but I don't like the feeling that my inner thoughts would end up on a server somewhere).

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#166

Wow, I'm masively disappointed with this thread. We have so many different Desktop "OS's" already. There's hardly a need for a _revolution_; strong stability and support is needed but there's just no paying market for it by the looks of it. 4 biggest desktop environments are by mega corporations (apple, microsoft) and by big open-source collectives (Gnome, KDE). But is that it? No, there's also a bunch of tilling-win…

We continue to dumb down interfaces because of the assumption that people won’t learn and the reality that building a complex usable interface is hard and teaching is almost never done. I remember when video games came with elaborate manuals, this discussion reminds me of that and how it stopped happening (and just now the smell of opening the box for a new game, i don’t think i’ll ever experience that again)

And yet videogames are prime evidence that users can learn just about any UI you throw at them, if they're even little bit motivated to do it. The Web itself is the second piece of evidence - despite all the UX experts' love for "simplicity" and "intuitiveness", every single website looks entirely unlike any other website. Every UI is different. People manage.

It's the assumption that people won't learn that's a problem. Minimizing unnecessary complexity is a good thing, but removing capabilities for sake of further UI simplification is taking things overboard.

(I'm forming a new hypothesis that tries to explain why this happens: it's because SaaS products are trying to turn a workflow into a service. So anything that deviates from their perfect workflow, including any flexibility, integration points, or general ability for self-help, is ruthlessly pruned. The users must follow the prescribed workflow.)

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#168
post #102
post #93

For many years it's seemed pretty obvious to me that most people don't have a need for a laptop for 'real work', but could instead just drop their phones in to a slick little dock connected to a keyboard, mouse and a large touch screen. I believe this was the original vision behind Ubuntu Phone before it was pared-down and made boring. Completely wireless pairing would be even better. It seems like the hardware is go…

This literally what Samsung phones do right now. No need to wait for Apple to save you.

What does Dex mode brings you? Mobile apps arranged like a desktop that's it. Where is Android studio ... on Android?

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#169
Sometimes when there's a discussion on alternative operating systems, people bring up Urbit. Urbit advertises itself as an OS with simple foundation: Nock VM. Here's the entire specification for Nock: https://github.com/urbit/urbit/blob/master/doc/spec/nock/5.t...

You may notice that there's barely any English in this specification, or even examples. But that's not the main problem. The main problem for me is that this VM lacks support for arithmetic operations. Well that's not quite true. It has all the necessary components to support arithmetic operations: it has comparison and increment. Congratulations, now go build your own Peano from scratch.

The author claims that this is not a problem! The VM will optimize your increments in the loop to subtraction, and it will optimize those nested loops to multiplication and division. But now you have an even worse problem! How the hell are you going to detect that a loop is a subtraction?! It's a halting problem hard task. So instead what you end up having is a VM with an informal specification, and if you stray away too much from it, your program is going to run hundreds of loops just to subtract two values, which means the program may boil up the oceans until it finishes.

And if you're being so smarty-pants about increment and equality being sufficient for arithmetics, why not use Church numerals? That's an even simpler foundation that the Nock VM!

https://tromp.github.io/cl/Binary_lambda_calculus.html

Re: Re-Thinking the Desktop OS

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS allows key repeat from external keyboards, but not from the onscreen keyboard. In theory a third-party keyboard should be able to implement that, although I can’t say I’ve seen any examples of it.

Interesting. I have the Apple Smart Keyboard Folio (not the newest magic keyboard) and I've looked everywhere for a way to enable key repeat, to no avail. Am I wrong in thinking that traditionally key repeat is handled at the OS level, rather than the keyboard level? It seems weird to me that each individual keyboard would be in charge of implementing that, especially when the settings for it are part of a desktop OS…

There is a setting within iOS settings > Accessibility > Keyboards > Key Repeat

I’ve never actually used an external keyboard on iOS so I can’t vouch for how well it works, but judging from the settings pane it should do what you want

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