Live data from Hacker News

There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

thedrive.com

101–110 of 111 posts

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see where you're coming from, and this proposed law doesn't seem super useful in isolation. But consider: 1. Publishing the same data over OBD-2 ends up being an afterthought. Without even looking at the specifics, I guarantee that there is data transmitted through telemetry that is not output through OBD-2. That's just how embedded development works - focus on making the main feature work, then forget about the re…

These are definitely valid points. Unfortunately your last example (3rd party web services easily discovering when I need an oil change, or what days I've been driving aggressively) is the kind of hypothetical I would want laws actively preventing. Arguably, it's not this law's job to introduce such a protection! But best I can tell, no other law covers it in MA. It is perfectly legal for 3rd parties to sell this and…

> 3rd party web services easily discovering when I need an oil change, or what days I've been driving aggressively ... is the kind of hypothetical I would want laws actively preventing.

But why, if it would still require your consent? Not faux consent based on click through or economic pressure, but real consent in the way the GDPR is getting at.

> But at least manufacturers have national brands which could be hurt by selling or leaking massive amounts of data about their customers. Perhaps some brands could even make privacy a selling point.

This doesn't seem to be playing out for any other industry, even ones with much lower barriers to switching (eg cell phones, supermarkets, credit cards). Privacy just does not seem to be a market differentiator. Car purchase timeframe is on the order of a decade (especially for the type of people concerned with autonomy that don't lease). So you buy a car from a brand that isn't selling your data, and a few years later they turn around and sell your data anyway. Then do you grin and bear it, or sell your car at a loss and go back to the market just to get screwed again? Until there is a privacy law, self help to prevent anyone getting your data in the first place is the only real option here.

> But best I can tell, no other law covers it in MA. It is perfectly legal for 3rd parties to sell this and other data without my explicit consent or even an opportunity to opt out

Yes, this is the root of our society's privacy/surveillance problem. The CCPA is relatively recent, and even that has been neutered to appease entrenched interests.

Companies want to hold power over you by selling your data, and also by withholding your own data from you. Being hesitant to address the second problem because of unknown unknowns about the first problem seems like the path of self-defeat. I'd love to see another ballot initiative that addresses privacy by retaining control of our data, but this is orthogonal.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#102
post #74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that if someone can, and there's any profit motive, they will. In terms of storing data? 20 years ago my VW recorded a great deal, as I discovered when the dealer's repair shop said to me "So you like to drive fast, eh?". They knew precisely how fast, too. What else is stored in that black box, which is often used by insurance companies, and police, after an acciden…

German vehicles are known to keep speeding data especially around redlines. I know BMW’s do this and it sounds like VW. However, I’ve never personally heard about Japanese or American cars saving redlines. Does anyone know if they do?

https://www.autogespot.com/tracking-your-car-say-goodbye-to-...!

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#103
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, police already had the option to stop wasting their time on stupid college students, it's called discretion.

In a city near me, they gave officers the discretion to either write people a ticket, or haul them to jail, for personal amounts of marijuana. After a few months, it was reported that not a single ticket had been written. I don't think most officers know what "discretion" means. Sad state of affairs, that.

A police officer always has the option to do nothing, so I'm not sure that needs to be enumerated.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#104
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're incredibly scummy but a super thin veneer. I don't know how anyone buys their BS. On one hand they feature grease monkeys talking about people hacking your car, I'm not sure people should be using their local mechanic for cybersecurity advice. More important, the fine print at the end makes it clear that it's the auto manufacturers sponsoring those ads, and their bias is obvious. I'll lose some faith in human…

I think it will pass,but I am pretty sure that such ballot initiatives are not binding. It might pass only to be quickly forgotten.

MA ballot initiatives, if passed, become ordinary laws. The Legislature can modify or delete them, just like any other ordinary law. However since the people voted for it, the Legislature is generally reluctant to do that.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#105
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a city near me, they gave officers the discretion to either write people a ticket, or haul them to jail, for personal amounts of marijuana. After a few months, it was reported that not a single ticket had been written. I don't think most officers know what "discretion" means. Sad state of affairs, that.

A police officer always has the option to do nothing, so I'm not sure that needs to be enumerated.

It's not that cut and dry. Police officers have a duty to uphold the law. They swear an oath to be faithful to that duty. Thankfully, that still means something to most people. However, when given a choice as to how to uphold the law, they often take the low road, unfortunately.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#106
post #56

I don’t understand how engineers can read the actual text of the Question and think this is a good idea... > shall be required to equip such vehicles with an inter-operable, standardized and open access platform across all of the manufacturer’s makes and models. What is a “platform” in this context? The vehicle is supposed to be equipped with one, so presumably not a cloud server then? Inter-operable with what? Other…

> I don’t understand how engineers can read the actual text of the Question and think this is a good idea... Because engineers are generally capable of understanding that law is law, and not a computer program. > Remember this is a legal requirement, not a spec Yes, this is a basic principle of how laws are written. You've supplied the rebuttal to the rest of your comment. All the terms that you singled out and put s…

It's not a lack of specificity that I'm worried about - quite the opposite, I think this text is far too over-specified while managing to use fluff terms that are mostly meaningless.

Meaning a court will have to somehow divine meaning from all those scare-quoted terms when the inevitable lawsuits commence.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that it's also a third-rail for politicians to try to touch, it sounds like it worked precisely as it should, and gave people what they wanted and voted for. Oregon passed something similar, albeit weaker; I wish we'd passed something much stronger. Not because I'm anti-taxation, but because funding anything via property taxes is an incredibly bad idea and leads to funding and service quality that's correlated…

If it were redistributive instead of local that wouldn't be a problem, and excluding primary lived in properties gets rid of any moral hazard.

Both of those would be a substantial improvement, yes. At that point, you'd just have an unusual, specialized wealth tax.

If you're going to change property taxes that much, though, you might as well go all the way to a land-value tax, which would also reduce problems with assessment and improvement.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#108
post #80
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusing, IMMEDIATE downvote by closed-source advocates.

More likely, it's your phrasing and typography that is causing downvotes rather than your ideology. Using capitals for emphasis violates the guidelines ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ), and for many people, starting with repeated this's pattern-matches to a low quality comment. You might ask yourself if your style is conducive to the message you are trying to convey.

Hmm.

I have my doubts re: reason, for it wasn't excessive, but point taken.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#109
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A police officer always has the option to do nothing, so I'm not sure that needs to be enumerated.

It's not that cut and dry. Police officers have a duty to uphold the law. They swear an oath to be faithful to that duty. Thankfully, that still means something to most people. However, when given a choice as to how to uphold the law, they often take the low road, unfortunately.

Warren v. District of Columbia held that police have no legal duty to provide police services to citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

Post reply on HN