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There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

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Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#11

Post by munk-a »

geophile wrote: post #10
hprotagonist wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you prefer that only centralized data warehouses like Officially Sanctioned Dealerships have access to this data instead? That seems worse.

I prefer that they don't have it either, but that's not a choice. But if every garage in the state has access to this data, it seems like a much bigger risk.

I don't know - it seems like you're assuming that authorized dealerships are a lot more trustworthy than general repair shops. That authorization is usually more "expensive" rather than "difficult" to acquire so a lot of the smaller shops have struggled to secure it.

I think one way to read the decrease in volume is that - yea it'd sure be nice if six fewer dealerships had access to this information, so why don't we make sure they all get forced to close their doors because the automakers don't want competition - there would be fewer in count, but that doesn't really speak to the security of that data at all (additionally, most of the sensitive data you probably care about doesn't appear to be on the table for this bill - specifically telemetry about driving habits doesn't appear to be under consideration)

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#12

Post by teeray »

geophile wrote: post #3

The only thing holding me back from a yes vote is the availability of detailed location data to 3rd parties. Can a mechanic sell this data? Can it be subpoenaed by police?

Also in the same vein...can insurance companies get it? Progressive has been trying to hawk that OBD-II spy box for ages now, and this would seem to be a gold mine for all of them.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#13

Post by kibwen »

The other ballot option in MA this year, Question 2, would enable ranked choice voting for state and federal elections. There was a bit of a thread about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24561551

What's weird is that before moving to MA I had never even heard of ballot options. As far as I can tell they just don't exist in PA, so social studies curricula just don't teach them. I'm increasingly a big fan; it seems like a valuable escape hatch for a democratic republic for the citizens to have the power to bypass the legislature if necessary.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#14

Post by elihu »

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

The No side's ads are incredibly scummy. The retired boston police commissioner has done an ad spot for Yes on Right To Repair specifically to slap down the "you will be raped in a parking lot" FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bye5DRBSpw The EFF is also strongly in favor, naturally, but i think Ed Davis will pull more weight if anyone's undecided. (when marijuana legalization was on the ballot in 2016, the then-…

That Yes ad raises more questions than it answers. What constitutes mechanical data? Does it include timestamps of when the engine was running and for how long? Is location data explicitly excluded? What about data that could be used to infer location, like vibration sensors picking up pothole impacts or gravel roads?

It seems simpler to just say: "This bill gives you, the owner of the vehicle, the right to give access to your car's data (that the automobile manufacturers are already collecting with little oversight into how it is used) to a third party mechanic of your choice for a limited time. It does not make this data available to literally anyone who wants it."

(The "for a limited time" concept does appear in the actual text of the bill in section 3 [1].)

[1] https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_t...

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#15

Post by jghn »

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

The No side's ads are incredibly scummy. The retired boston police commissioner has done an ad spot for Yes on Right To Repair specifically to slap down the "you will be raped in a parking lot" FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bye5DRBSpw The EFF is also strongly in favor, naturally, but i think Ed Davis will pull more weight if anyone's undecided. (when marijuana legalization was on the ballot in 2016, the then-…

They're incredibly scummy but a super thin veneer. I don't know how anyone buys their BS. On one hand they feature grease monkeys talking about people hacking your car, I'm not sure people should be using their local mechanic for cybersecurity advice. More important, the fine print at the end makes it clear that it's the auto manufacturers sponsoring those ads, and their bias is obvious.

I'll lose some faith in humanity if it doesn't pass.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#16

Post by elihu »

geophile wrote: post #10
hprotagonist wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you prefer that only centralized data warehouses like Officially Sanctioned Dealerships have access to this data instead? That seems worse.

I prefer that they don't have it either, but that's not a choice. But if every garage in the state has access to this data, it seems like a much bigger risk.

The bill only requires the auto manufacturer to make the data available to a third party if they have consent from the vehicle owner to do so.

https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_1,_%22Right_t...

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#17

Post by ptero »

jghn wrote: post #15
hprotagonist wrote: post #2

The No side's ads are incredibly scummy. The retired boston police commissioner has done an ad spot for Yes on Right To Repair specifically to slap down the "you will be raped in a parking lot" FUD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bye5DRBSpw The EFF is also strongly in favor, naturally, but i think Ed Davis will pull more weight if anyone's undecided. (when marijuana legalization was on the ballot in 2016, the then-…

They're incredibly scummy but a super thin veneer. I don't know how anyone buys their BS. On one hand they feature grease monkeys talking about people hacking your car, I'm not sure people should be using their local mechanic for cybersecurity advice. More important, the fine print at the end makes it clear that it's the auto manufacturers sponsoring those ads, and their bias is obvious. I'll lose some faith in human…

I think it will pass,but I am pretty sure that such ballot initiatives are not binding. It might pass only to be quickly forgotten.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#18

Post by Retric »

kibwen wrote: post #13

The other ballot option in MA this year, Question 2, would enable ranked choice voting for state and federal elections. There was a bit of a thread about this the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24561551 What's weird is that before moving to MA I had never even heard of ballot options. As far as I can tell they just don't exist in PA, so social studies curricula just don't teach them. I'm increasingly…

It’s a double edged escape hatch. In practice the vast majority of voters know little to nothing about what’s being decided.

On the other hand many third rail political views have a great deal of popular support. So, IMO the trick is to require a very large number of signatures to get on the ballot.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#19

Post by dmqctx »

geophile wrote: post #3

The only thing holding me back from a yes vote is the availability of detailed location data to 3rd parties. Can a mechanic sell this data? Can it be subpoenaed by police?

What use is location based information to a repair shop? Is it simply that opening up this dealer-only content to 3rd parties will in turn share the location data? I can't see any benefit in sharing location specific info to a shop. Why not have the bill insulate that type of data...walled off, for dealer and owner only to access.

Re: There's another right to repair fight brewing in Massachusetts

#20

Post by nerdponx »

hprotagonist wrote: post #7
geophile wrote: post #3

The only thing holding me back from a yes vote is the availability of detailed location data to 3rd parties. Can a mechanic sell this data? Can it be subpoenaed by police?

would you prefer that only centralized data warehouses like Officially Sanctioned Dealerships have access to this data instead? That seems worse.

This. Most arguments against 1 that I've seen are arguments against telematics in general.
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