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The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

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Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#121

Post by dathinab »

floatingatoll wrote: post #60
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

Over the past couple of decades, our elected representatives have prioritized the welfare of corporations over the welfare of human beings. Price transparency laws harm corporations and benefit consumers; therefore, they are unlikely to be approved for law by the elected representatives.

At the same time price transparency & monopoly restrictions is fundamental for a working capitalism.

Without that there will be no proper self regulating marked and all the points why capitalism is supposed to work will not uphold anymore.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#122

Post by jacurtis »

Let's also not forget that Apple also removed a $20-30 accessory from the box under the guise of saving the planet. Then not only decided to not pass that savings onto the customer, but actually secretively raised the price $30.

I am not suggesting that removing the power brick doesn't have any impact on the environment. What I am suggesting is that I don't buy for a second that it was the primary motivator for removing it. My guess is that the primary motivator is shipping cost. This has a tangible and significant impact on their profit per unit and that was the driving factor. The fact that they could spin the removal of this device as a painstaking decision they toiled over because they wanted to save the sea turtles is really just a PR spin and was a happy coincidence that they could use.

And all those tangible cost savings thanks to the removal of this accessory... not only have those savings not been passed onto the consumer, but they actually increased the price!

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#123

Post by tchalla »

mangoman wrote: post #2

I saw that on their page - I wasn't as offended about the pricing differential as the post, but I was groaning during the whole verizon pitch. I wonder how much verizon paid for that placement. It felt extremely out of place and very cringy IMO.

AT&T also has the same "Special Offer" as Verizon for iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Mini. No difference for Pro and Pro Max models.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24780791

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#124

Post by cwhiz »

It is more annoying than misleading. The pricing is clearly "From $699." You choose your model, choose your color, and then choose your carrier. The price is listed next to each carrier with an orange "Special Offers Available" on top of AT&T and Verizon. The Sim-free device also has the $729 price.

As soon as you select your carrier the price on the top of the page adjusts to $729. I noticed this last night when I was prepping my pre-order.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#125

Post by srtjstjsj »

kindatrue wrote: post #105
mangoman wrote: post #2

I saw that on their page - I wasn't as offended about the pricing differential as the post, but I was groaning during the whole verizon pitch. I wonder how much verizon paid for that placement. It felt extremely out of place and very cringy IMO.

Steve Jobs was rolling in his grave

Please stop trying to invent a legend of a perfect Steve Jobs.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#126

Post by dstick »

floatingatoll wrote: post #60
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

Over the past couple of decades, our elected representatives have prioritized the welfare of corporations over the welfare of human beings. Price transparency laws harm corporations and benefit consumers; therefore, they are unlikely to be approved for law by the elected representatives.

It’s an incomplete statement if you leave out the “why”. Lobbying. If that were regulated and corporation money didn’t indirectly buy votes through ad-spent but votes were won through actual policies and independent voter thinking, representatives would represent what voters (or a slice of them) wanted.

As it stands, they win elections by catering to a very, very small slice that can bring them into power: Corporations. Their donations are a more sure-fire bet to winning elections than trying to win over regular people.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#127

Post by ianai »

samatman wrote: post #90
wyldfire wrote: post #4

Phone subsidies are bad and should go away. Showing the post-subsidy price is dishonest.

If I grant the second premise, could you explain your antipathy to the first? If I want to have a mobile phone, I need a mobile phone plan to go with it. What's wrong with bundling those services for a slightly lower total bill? It strikes me as pretty standard business logic.

It begins to muddy the water about what you’re buying. It also leads people to spending more on a phone than they set out or budgeted. It doesn’t seem like much, but it is a shady practice-the kind “old Apple” wouldn’t have done.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#128

Post by rhplus »

kube-system wrote: post #63
jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

"Starting at $x" ads like this are by far the least egregious any of those examples. I don't really see much of a problem with advertising configurable products like this, especially when it is called out specifically as a starting price. The F150 can be priced from $28,745 all the way to $81,000+ and anything in-between. People know trucks have options, and they know that when Ford says it's "starts at $28,745" they…

> Nobody is being hurt by these practices.

Price obfuscation makes it nearly impossible to do a like-for-like price comparison between two manufacturers. If the consumer isn't being hurt by these practices, then why do car dealership groups need to continue lobbying the government to uphold laws preventing direct-to-consumer sales? They know that open-pricing would drive competition and erode their middleman profits.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#129

Post by crazygringo »

jonathanberger wrote: post #11

Why doesn't the US have universal laws that cover price transparency in general? There are so many industries that get into shady territory: rental cars ("facility use fees"), hotels ("resort fees"), internet access ("mandatory equipment rental fees"), even SF restaurants ("SF mandate"). I'm saying Apple is wrong, and so are many other companies, and shouldn't we have fixed this with a law by this point?

Truly it's bizarre.

Because the thing is, we can. Remember how in the early days of Expedia, flights were listed as crazy cheap, and then when you clicked through to buy, you discovered they'd tack on another 30-50% in fees and taxes? But that changed in 2012 when advertised airfares were forced to include all mandatory charges.

Why they don't do that with all industries -- the ones you've listed, plus making it so cell phone and internet providers can't start randomly tacking on new "network maintenance fees" and other BS -- is beyond me. It shouldn't just be airfare, it should be everything.

I mean, you'd think one of the political parties -- presumably Democrats -- would say, hey that'd be a popular move with voters, and make it part of their platform? But no.

Re: The real prices of the iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 mini

#130

Post by dwighttk »

Meh.

Cellphone pricing and cell carrier shell games are not unexpected. There are like 49 different ways to pay for phones these days and I don’t have the energy to tell the difference. The only thing that irritates me is the fee my carrier charges if I’m not paying off a phone at the moment that is equal to the amount I would be paying them if I used one of their payment plans for a phone.

I was also worried when I started reading that it was like $100 we were talking about, not $30.

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