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Why I’m Glad I Left America

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#11

Post by danielrpa »

There is no single place in the world that will be best for everybody. I have friends in South America who would never move to Europe or US. It's not that South America is better in some absolute way, but it is great at the things they value (including proximity to family).

I personally would never, ever leave the US for France (or pretty much anywhere in Europe). For all the problems we have in the US, it's still one of the best places in the world for the things I value.

The author is clearly left-leaning, so it's not entirely surprising he would prefer Europe. US liberals tend to want to implement many things that already exist in Europe (free X, free Y, subsidized Z, more vacations etc).

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#12

Post by foogazi »

monkaiju wrote: post #7
igetspam wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is abandoning your life and home the "easy" way? Sure, it takes means but it's nontrivial. And yes, many are left behind but should we all be forced to stay on a sinking ship, when there are lifeboats? If anyone must perish, we all must perish? I'm headed toward the exit with my family. It's a long process and if I didn't have a kid, I probably wouldn't be doing it. My kid's life is more important than mine and I…

It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future. Also if you think there's anywhere you can run where things like the fascist tide, globalization, and white supremacy cant reach you you're extremely naive. It would be far better for your child to grow up in a better world, and know how to fight for that, than to grow up on some shrinking islet of comfort without learning anything from their…

> It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future.

What is this fetish we have with fighting. How are people that don’t migrate fighting?

I don’t think you managed to explain how the people that leave are to blame for the problems

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#13

Post by monkaiju »

foogazi wrote: post #12
monkaiju wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future. Also if you think there's anywhere you can run where things like the fascist tide, globalization, and white supremacy cant reach you you're extremely naive. It would be far better for your child to grow up in a better world, and know how to fight for that, than to grow up on some shrinking islet of comfort without learning anything from their…

> It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future. What is this fetish we have with fighting. How are people that don’t migrate fighting? I don’t think you managed to explain how the people that leave are to blame for the problems

> How are people that don’t migrate fighting?

Have you not noticed the uprising occurring in the US currently? That is people, who did not leave, staying and fighting.

> I don’t think you managed to explain how the people that leave are to blame for the problems

I'm not saying they're to blame for all of the problems. What I am saying is that people of comfort, which is a group that people who can leave are among, have historically benefited tremendously from the exploitative system that makes our country "bad." Now that its ruined here they simply want to run off, commonly to another colonial power, to live it up there.

That is not a fetishisation with fighting, that is a sober observation that the masses are being oppressed and that if they want that to change they will need to confront their oppressors.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#14

Post by igetspam »

monkaiju wrote: post #7
igetspam wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is abandoning your life and home the "easy" way? Sure, it takes means but it's nontrivial. And yes, many are left behind but should we all be forced to stay on a sinking ship, when there are lifeboats? If anyone must perish, we all must perish? I'm headed toward the exit with my family. It's a long process and if I didn't have a kid, I probably wouldn't be doing it. My kid's life is more important than mine and I…

It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future. Also if you think there's anywhere you can run where things like the fascist tide, globalization, and white supremacy cant reach you you're extremely naive. It would be far better for your child to grow up in a better world, and know how to fight for that, than to grow up on some shrinking islet of comfort without learning anything from their…

You can't hide from everything (not that I intend to hide at all) but you can definitely improve your situation. As white guy, u benefit basically everywhere. Know who doesn't? Women. Know where they have more benefits than in the US? Almost everywhere. Why should we stay and fight something that us so obviously unbalanced when we can walk away and let it burn behind us? How is that my responsibility? Or my wife's? Or my daughter's? We've built a world that's so obviously not for them, that thinms they're literally thought if as incapable of making decsions for themselves, that have no chance to come out ahead (rare exceptions do not make the rule). Even worse if you're a woman of color. It's not "uncomfortable," as your condescending response claims, it's fucking dangerous. That you can't see that indicates that your pedestal is too high.

Let it fail. After the fires are out and it's time to rebuild, I'll lend a hand. Until then, good luck. I'm done with this mess.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#15

Post by taylodl »

Left America for - France? Isn't that a bit like jumping from the frying pan into the fire? I guess I was expecting to see the usual Scandinavian suspects, not France. Mind you not that there's anything wrong with France, it's just they're grappling with the same issues the United States is. You don't notice it as much because it doesn't dominate U.S. news. But let me tell you, Western Europe is in a sinking boat as well. To abuse the metaphor a bit all our boats might be at different levels and rates of sinking, but they're all sinking nonetheless. Which is all to say that Western Civilization is dying.

If I were to leave the United States I would avoid the West.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#16

Post by blissofbeing »

For me the biggest quality of life improvement has been moving to a less populated area with clean air, clean water and access to good organic food, forget what country that is in, that only matters in which the local government either degrades or improves upon those basic things.

This is why I probably won't move to Asia, it's just too polluted. Or why I won't move back to a big city.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#17

Post by monkaiju »

igetspam wrote: post #14
monkaiju wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely is easy compared to staying and fighting for a better future. Also if you think there's anywhere you can run where things like the fascist tide, globalization, and white supremacy cant reach you you're extremely naive. It would be far better for your child to grow up in a better world, and know how to fight for that, than to grow up on some shrinking islet of comfort without learning anything from their…

You can't hide from everything (not that I intend to hide at all) but you can definitely improve your situation. As white guy, u benefit basically everywhere. Know who doesn't? Women. Know where they have more benefits than in the US? Almost everywhere. Why should we stay and fight something that us so obviously unbalanced when we can walk away and let it burn behind us? How is that my responsibility? Or my wife's? O…

The places that have better women's right FOUGHT FOR THEM. I'm not saying its fair, but leaving behind your comrades, whatever group you're from, isn't fair either. It literally perpetuates the colonial mindset that started this mess when privileged people think they can just "go where the grass is greener."

Also do you not think a further collapse of civil rights in the US will have a global effect? It absolutely will.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#18

Post by RickJWagner »

I'm glad the author is happy where he's at. I wish more people would move to where they are best suited.

I want the people of France to enjoy the best France possible. Likewise to the people of Germany, Egypt, etc.

As for me, I like the America I was born in. To be sure, it's changing, but it has unique traits that I wouldn't give up for anything.

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#19

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

monkaiju wrote: post #3

I am so tired of this fetishisation of the easy way. It is something only available to the privileged and is, in this case, nothing short of abandoning the rest of us to the fascist takeover occurring in the USA.

Tsk, tsk. Ever heard of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_voting vs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibelungentreue ?

Re: Why I’m Glad I Left America

#20

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

monkaiju wrote: post #17
igetspam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't hide from everything (not that I intend to hide at all) but you can definitely improve your situation. As white guy, u benefit basically everywhere. Know who doesn't? Women. Know where they have more benefits than in the US? Almost everywhere. Why should we stay and fight something that us so obviously unbalanced when we can walk away and let it burn behind us? How is that my responsibility? Or my wife's? O…

The places that have better women's right FOUGHT FOR THEM. I'm not saying its fair, but leaving behind your comrades, whatever group you're from, isn't fair either. It literally perpetuates the colonial mindset that started this mess when privileged people think they can just "go where the grass is greener." Also do you not think a further collapse of civil rights in the US will have a global effect? It absolutely wi…

I disagree partially. Much of those fights were enabled by wars, where the men were busy with killing each other, because other men said so. Meanwhile back home the women had to carry on in the war economy, and taking over many former male tasks. That was the primary enabler of womans rights IMO. Not that I'd been against those, just saying...
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