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San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

bloomberg.com

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Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#481

Post by acalzycalzy »

burlesona wrote: post #51

I would say the city being “closed” is the major driver. Among my group of ~40 coworkers, about 30 (including me) have left the city. As far as I know all but one were renting. Everyone who left gave the following rationale: - we can work remotely so move wherever or nomad now - SF is not very fun during the pandemic - WFH in my tiny apartment is much less enjoyable than when I was working in the office and didn’t sp…

SF wasn’t fun before the Pandemic. I’ve visited friends who work in tech 3 different times the past 5 years. The city lacks culture, the food and drinking scenes suck, and the people are all the same.

(I spend most of my city time in miami, nyc, and montreal)

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#482

Post by onecommentman »

adjkant wrote: post #446
burlesona wrote: post #51

I would say the city being “closed” is the major driver. Among my group of ~40 coworkers, about 30 (including me) have left the city. As far as I know all but one were renting. Everyone who left gave the following rationale: - we can work remotely so move wherever or nomad now - SF is not very fun during the pandemic - WFH in my tiny apartment is much less enjoyable than when I was working in the office and didn’t sp…

What is curious to me is that NYC rents haven't seen the same crater at all (link says 15% but anecdotally most of the desirable top of market neighborhoods aren't budging). I don't buy the "SF is not very fun during the pandemic" rationale as more special than any other notable city, and NYC tends to have less space than SF. To me, that says the SF case has more complexity. IMO, the key factor here is that there app…

Perhaps the phenomenon of “X months free rent” is more pervasive in NYC.

E.g. https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/market-insight/rental-buildin...

What little I understand is if a landlord is leveraged (?) up the wazoo, the lending bank can make the landlord pay a lump sum if the revenue projections on which the loan is made shrink, since the risk is higher. Somehow, free months don’t count against these revenue projections (assumed a one-off?), through what I imagine is the magic of contract law. The higher end, nicer real estate is probably more highly leveraged. Someone in RE can probably clarify this better.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#483

Post by egypturnash »

acalzycalzy wrote: post #481
burlesona wrote: post #51

I would say the city being “closed” is the major driver. Among my group of ~40 coworkers, about 30 (including me) have left the city. As far as I know all but one were renting. Everyone who left gave the following rationale: - we can work remotely so move wherever or nomad now - SF is not very fun during the pandemic - WFH in my tiny apartment is much less enjoyable than when I was working in the office and didn’t sp…

SF wasn’t fun before the Pandemic. I’ve visited friends who work in tech 3 different times the past 5 years. The city lacks culture, the food and drinking scenes suck, and the people are all the same. (I spend most of my city time in miami, nyc, and montreal)

This is what tech money does to a city. Rents go up, everybody interesting leaves for places they can afford without a ludicrous salary.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#484

Post by mushbino »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #163
gedy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politically it's a lot more centrist. More housing friendly, no good transit options though.

I wouldn't be surprised if the massive, long-standing military presence in/around San Diego is a factor for the region being more conservative than most of coastal California.

This is part of the reason. Another part is that typically the closer you get to the equator in the US the more conservative. It's related to the reason why beach towns typically have bad food and no real culture.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#485

Post by kelnos »

rcpt wrote: post #428
gmadsen wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

depends on your priorities. I would rather have nice restaurants than a nice apartment or house. I've lived in a culturally devoid suburb, where the options are fast food, or chain restaurants, and it affected my quality of life substantially.

Not everything outside SF is a "culturally devoid suburb"

No, and I think it's uncharitable to assume that's what the parent is suggesting.

But even if we expand the statement to "outside a major city" or even "outside a major metro area", I think a lot of places are culturally devoid suburbs (though I probably would have picked a nicer way of putting it).

I would wager that the majority of suburbs in the US don't have much variety in cuisine, and while communities will certainly have a few stand-out restaurants, there will also be a lot of mediocre fast food, fast casual, and pizza shops. I grew up in places like that, some of my family lives in places like that, and some friends who used to live in cities, but moved out for more space, also live in places like that.

Get too far outside Seattle, Portland, the SF bay area, greater LA, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Austin, Dallas, Nashville, and even many smaller cities, and there really isn't much to write home about when it comes to food. And for some of those cities, "too far outside" can be as little as a half hour drive.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#486

Post by kelnos »

jupp0r wrote: post #441
Daishiman wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Effectively, there's never more than a dozen cities, tops, in any country in the world where you can get close to top-level food quality, and even so that applies only for a few genres of food.

France begs to differ. You have spectacularly good restaurants in rural areas all over the county (Michelin star good).

Sure, but you don't get the variety. If you move out to rural France but are used to rotating among eating Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, Thai, etc. throughout the month, you might be disappointed with the lack of choices.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#487

Post by onecommentman »

jzoch wrote: post #377
tarsinge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> food or retail scene In my experience this is becoming less and less true, smaller cities are really catching up, it's not 2010 anymore. My pet theory is that social networks like Instagram have done a good job spreading fashion and food experiences/expectations that were previously exclusives to big city centers.

As everyone else is echoing - really not true. I grew up in Orange County which, for a suburb, has really good food options. Tons and tons of restaurants and a lot of people accustomed to nice things. The difference in food options between SF (where I am now) and OC (or LA vs OC) is absolutely astounding. Its really not even close. Its gotten better but large cities are still orders of magnitude better.

Did you mean to write “much” instead of “orders of magnitude”? If not, please provide support for even a single order of magnitude compared to OC.

Sincerely, the League for Reducing Hyperbole on the Internet

PS: “Everybody else”, “absolutely astounding”, “its [sic] really not even close”...sit down and have a nice glass of warm milk and think about what you wrote. :-)

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#488

Post by kelnos »

tchaffee wrote: post #431
gmadsen wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this is wrong. Food scenes require diverse cultures. Small town USA doesn't have 50+ ethnic groups making restaurants downtown

France, Italy, Mexico, Peru, Basque, and Japan are all examples of places with mostly one ethnic group and great food scenes.

Very true! But I'd be disappointed if the only plentiful cuisine was the local one. As much as I love each of the cuisines you mentioned, I can't imagine predominately eating any one of them.

Re: San Francisco Apartment Rents Crater Up to 31%, Most in U.S.

#489

Post by aejnsn »

egypturnash wrote: post #483
acalzycalzy wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF wasn’t fun before the Pandemic. I’ve visited friends who work in tech 3 different times the past 5 years. The city lacks culture, the food and drinking scenes suck, and the people are all the same. (I spend most of my city time in miami, nyc, and montreal)

This is what tech money does to a city. Rents go up, everybody interesting leaves for places they can afford without a ludicrous salary.

But only tech money does that?
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