When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#171

Post by detaro » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

barkingcat wrote: post #170

detaro wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it "screw around" with the name?

The the name de Zwart appears inconsistently capitalized throughout the article. If you do a matched-case search in the body text, de Zwart appears 3 times, while De Zwart occurs 7 times outside of quotation marks, and other locations (like at the beginning of a sentence) where English rules will capitalize a name. I believe to follow proper Dutch capitalization, it should be similar to, for example: Being a digital…

Luckily a large part of this HN discussion already goes into detail about this.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#172

Post by cgriswald » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

katmannthree wrote: post #145

RIMR wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that facebook creates the problems that exist on their platform. All of Facebook's problems exist independent of Facebook. Facebook's existence guarantees that those problems will become a part of them. I'm not saying they shouldn't be held responsible for not doing their due diligence, but the argument that they ought to be charged for "offloading" problems on the "real world" isn't great. That's like s…

>That's like saying car manufacturers need to be charged for offloading automotive deaths on society. Devil's advocate but why shouldn't they? At the end of the day _someone_ has to bear that cost, why should we force society at large to deal with issues that arise as a result of a small group of people finding a new way to enrich themselves?

> Devil's advocate but why shouldn't they?

Because they aren't making the choices that result in the deaths.

If you force the industry to pay for the negative externalities of the industry, the fixes/costs can be baked into the product (e.g., safety equipment, emissions standards).

If you force the industry to pay for things that are the result of government (e.g. overly-permissive licensing standards, building large suburbs that require vehicles) or consumer behavior (e.g., driving drunk, reckless driving), you'll either: (1) destroy the industry or (2) create strong incentives for the industry to lobby government to make such behavior impossible (say by passing an amendment to ban the consumption of alcohol).

You also either create a situation where victims can double-dip, getting paid both from the industry and from the individual consumer—who has already paid in aggregate by paying the industry; or a situation where the consumer has no direct responsibility, which will likely have the effect of riskier behavior; at least until the industry successfully lobbies the government.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#173

Post by jungletime » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #157

jungletime wrote: post #143

There is an episode on the simpsons, which I think illustrates the problem with the modern times. Everyone overreacting to a snippet of information, without knowing what came before or after. The overreacting to the overreactions. Its two villages making up stories about what happens in the other village, and each turn, the story gets embellished. How To Cook For Forty Humans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxI7B758X…

I don't get the relevance. Is this article an overreaction?

The movie revolves around misunderstanding and incomplete information. There are people on facebook trying to cause such misunderstandings using selective clips, and quotes all the time. Consider the BLM protests, most of the cases, are kind of grey area. People don't have the full information. There are much more clear cut cases around BLM could have focused on. Yet they chose these ones. Why? They pick the controversial ones, over witch people will argue endlessly.

People might be rioting right now over something that is not even True.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#174

Post by barkingcat » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #171

barkingcat wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The the name de Zwart appears inconsistently capitalized throughout the article. If you do a matched-case search in the body text, de Zwart appears 3 times, while De Zwart occurs 7 times outside of quotation marks, and other locations (like at the beginning of a sentence) where English rules will capitalize a name. I believe to follow proper Dutch capitalization, it should be similar to, for example: Being a digital…

Luckily a large part of this HN discussion already goes into detail about this.

For example

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24763789

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#175

Post by will4274 » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:33 PM UTC

iudqnolq wrote: post #114

pteraspidomorph wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...of Ulm ;) Name forms really should just be: Your full legal name: [accepts anything, modifies nothing] Shortened name of your choice for our UI: [can have restrictions, esp. length]

I feel like the pattern of names in the UI comes from wanting to justify collecting the name in the first place. What is it actually good for?

Phone, email, messenger, basically any collaboration software? My university assigned email addresses by initials - e.g. if you name was John Anderson Smith and you were the 167th person with the initials JAS, you'd be jas167@example.edu. Which is easier to find, search, and read in a contact list - John Smith or jas167?

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#176

Post by prepend » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC

This reminds me of studying ethics from a deontological and utilitarian model. The discussion was about whether it’s better to optimize for the greater good or to have a rules based system of right and wrong.

To me, utilitarian seems like the best outcome because the most people are improved. But the way to get there, I think, is through deontological methods because it’s actually unclear what actions can be taken to lead to an outcome. So trying to optimize in the short term can lead to unexpected side effects.

Having a rules based system and following it even if it costs $1M to fix a $1 problem seems better in the long run because it is predictable and solves hidden problems.

It seems Facebook is MLing itself into a feedback loop that is missing any core value other than “let’s make it work for 99% and not worry.” But I think this piles up little slices of technical debt until it eventually breaks.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#177

Post by OkGoDoIt » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

hnarn wrote: post #75

teekert wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, in the Netherlands we also don't use the "de" and "van" for sorting so it was confusing to find my badge under the "v" at American conferences the first time. Ah well, what can you do? A friend of mine had his FB acount blocked for failing to provide a real name (his last name is "Fun"), ironically after he gave FB a false name they did accept it.

> A friend of mine had his FB acount blocked for failing to provide a real name (his last name is "Fun") Don't they have a process where you can submit a government ID and have your name accepted? Honestly I don't blame the minimum wage person responsible for name screening for flagging a name that is both uncommon and one of the most common adjectives in the English language, if the policy is that fake names aren't…

They do have a process for providing copies of your government ID to have your account unblocked, but I have 2 friends who did that and neither one ever heard anything back or successfully got their accounts unblocked. Normal American names, nothing funky. As far as any of us can figure out, they hadn’t done anything wrong in the first place, just randomly unluckily somehow displeased The Algorithm.

Facebook is fine until you get caught in the machine at no fault and with no recourse. I would have closed my account by now but I work in low-budget theater and Facebook events and Facebook advertising are unfortunately required to make it in the industry.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#178

Post by prof-dr-ir » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

barkingcat wrote: post #166

ascar wrote: post #22

> He immediately gets angry at Facebook messing up his name. The company changes his name to ‘Hans De Zwart’, with a capitalized D. A small annoyance, but for De Zwart it signifies something bigger: “It is the arrogance of a giant American corporation which considers the correct spelling of the names of millions of Dutch people an edge case.” This reminds me of the excellent "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Name…

Note that this sentence (and the whole article) contains the same mis-capitalization the articles complains Facebook is doing. It is most likely an aggressive final pass of spellcheck or auto-correct that wasn't re-incorrected before publishing, but really ironic all the same.

Hah, I guess that would be falsehood number 7 in the above link ("People’s names do not change.") Are you a programmer by any chance?

In Dutch one capitalizes 'De' if it is the first word of the name. So the article is correct (for example in ".. says De Zwart."), as is writing "Hans de Zwart" or even "Mr. de Zwart".

Bonus points: figure out the correct capitalization (in different context) of Nobel prize winning physicist gerard 't hooft.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#179

Post by feoren » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #152

randallsquared wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't blame the minimum wage person responsible for name screening My expectation is that the person who wrote the code responsible for rejecting my name in the mid-to-late 2000s was paid somewhat more than minimum wage.

I think OP was talking about the support staff using the system that the highly paid engineers wrote.

I think GP was implying there was no support staff using that system -- it's entirely automated. That's why the engineer was so highly paid to begin with.

Re: When thebiglebow.ski is blocked by Facebook

#180

Post by keraf » Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

richrichardsson wrote: post #85

A big part of this I think is due to "uncommon" TLDs. I had a joke "quiz" .website domain that was insta-blocked by Facebook for no reason and was impossible to get revoked. That was a complete waste of time when the main way I intended for it to get some traction was through Facebook shares.

I registered a .as domain for my last name (ending in 'as') and managed to set it as my primary email on Facebook shorty before they decided to block that domain for no apparent reason. For years (until I deleted my FB account), I had a message on the top of my feed asking me to confirm my email even though it was already confirmed but I could never do it because of the block. Tried many times to get it resolved but no success. And to this day, people cannot send posts or messages that contain my domain (website or email) anywhere on Facebook and Instagram.