I don't understand why in 2020 we cannot have transactional firmware updates. Download firmware -> swap out. Is that so hard? This automatically allows for rollback to last known good as well.
Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
231–240 of 346 posts
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#232A lot of readers here, and on Reddit seem to be misunderstanding the situation. The way I understand it, this car was taken in by a garage for 'seat installation'. I presume this means after market seats. The car disabled itself during installation. The OP assumed due to an anti-temper device, but it could have been any failure mode. Most modern cars with airbags will have sensors in the seats to disable some of the…
Agreed, I also really dislike this frequent misuse of the term "bricking". Bricking used to mean getting your device into a permanently unrecoverable state, but these days I see it used so often as just to mean "I can't turn it on right now".
Soft brick vs. hard brick is a common (though equally ill-defined) term.
If the user cannot restore it to normal operation using tools that the average user has available, that is definitely a brick though, and I'd argue that it meets even the definition of a "hard brick".
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The fact that the manufacturer can remote into their cars, does not automatically mean that the car is vulnerable to remote hacking If your car can connect to the internet it's vulnerable to hacking via the internet. My car, which is incapable of connecting to the internet suffers no such potential for abuse.
Theoretically if the systems are properly decoupled and airgapped than the hacking surface area should be quite low. You might be able to hijack the music coming through the speakers, but you should never be able to control the brakes over the internet. In real life is that what actually happens? Sadly, no. Car companies seem to make a lot of bone-headed systems engineering design decisions (such as having a computer…
How small the surface is is irrelevant, an internet connected car is more of a risk. I don't want all these features in a car.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The situation in here is more like "haha, ok, we just need to tow this thing out of the garage and try again" - no big deal. No big deal when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're in a parking garage. Rather more of a life-threatening defect when the reason you can't get a signal is that you're driving through an unpopulated desert where there are no cell towers or other people.
If one can afford a Ferrari, one can afford a satellite phone/communicator. If one can afford a Ferrari, one also knows that it is far more likely the thing will break the old-fashioned way rather than lock you out via software. Hell, I don't care who made it, cars still get flat tires.
A flat tire doesn't stop you from driving if the situation is urgent enough.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#235If you ever find yourself wanting a Ferrari, head over to your friendly neighborhood exotics workshop and have a look at the cars that come in. "Quality" isn't a word I'd use around a Ferrari.
It’s not like McLarens et al have much of a rep on reliability either; that’s not the point of these cars. These cars are built to give you a fun ride for a few hours at the weekend (at best) or just to look good (at worst). Inbetween stints, they need lots of care. It’s like F1 cars: they’re built to go around very-well-maintained circuits a few weekends a year, but they wouldn’t survive two days on the average city street.
If you want something that never gives you trouble, buy a VW or a Toyota. You’ll never see a garage if you don’t want to, but they will never give you the same experience as a supercar.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#236I would phrase this differently.
"Ferrari is bricked by poor software engineering & not handling a normal use case."
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#237The bricking shows that all these “smart” cars with remote software control are liable to hacking (and potentially deadly accidents). We should have a choice to turn them off selectively. The worst part is that car companies don’t understand software and digital security. https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig...
This is false. According to the reddit thread [1], the anti-theft tamper safeguard (no network required) was triggered. Since it was triggered when there was no network connectivity, network connectivity could not be used re-enable the car. So, no network connectivity was used to disable or enable the car. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/j9qn...
Which part is false?
The remote control wasn't used here but it normally works and they tried to use it. So it does show that these cars could be hacked remotely.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
"This baby can go zero to sixty in three seconds flat."
For anyone wondering, assuming linear acceleration that's roughly 1 g. In a rear-facing seat, that's 1 g eyeballs-out, which should still be perfectly safe for the child, but possibly not for the cleanliness of the seat.
Also, basically any boring passenger car can brake at or slightly above 1 g.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, it's a 2-step process. It's hard to find a car without remote-unlock. From there, you have access to OBD. OBD port is +12, GND, TX and RX pin if you just want to connect to 1 bus. Shouldn't be too hard MITM that if you have physical access.
1. Remote unlock - you need to hack that... good luck... 2. ODB port requires physical access which means either alarm or 1... under pressure since owner may see you and call cops. Now you can do something else on cheap asshole car manufacturers like Jeep and bluetooth/wifi hack media center then get on ODB via that because cheap idiots said its a good idea to have common bus.
Iunno, #1 followed by #2 has been happening with some frequency with high end vehicles.
But moreso to steal them in the middle of the night and have in a sea container within 24h.
Then again, if it was being done to install a MITM OBD device... it’s a lot less obvious than waking up to your car gone.
Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as the control systems are properly air-gapped you should be fine. (doesn't work for jeep apparently due to cost savings... https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... ) won't stop someone physically breaking in and connecting something to the bus but the alarm should sound in that case.
Well, it's a 2-step process. It's hard to find a car without remote-unlock. From there, you have access to OBD. OBD port is +12, GND, TX and RX pin if you just want to connect to 1 bus. Shouldn't be too hard MITM that if you have physical access.
> It's hard to find a car without remote-unlock.
Unplug the antenna?
And someone that's going to MITM your OBD could also MITM your ignition wire on an analog car.