Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground • Hacker News Board

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#41

Post by rjsw » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

adriancr wrote: post #31

fb03 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jokes aside, cars have not been analog anymore for decades ;-( Most stuff (even stuff that looks analog like the speed gauge) now runs thru buses and OBD allows you to tap into almost every controllable aspect of the car if you know the 'right api' for the device.

As long as the control systems are properly air-gapped you should be fine. (doesn't work for jeep apparently due to cost savings... https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-hig... ) won't stop someone physically breaking in and connecting something to the bus but the alarm should sound in that case.

There have been cars where the bus connection to the ABS system was accessable in the wheel well.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#42

Post by cptskippy » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #28

mannykannot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It tells us that the people who are designing these things are not considering some of the most basic issues.

people who are designing these things are not considering some of the most basic issues Is replacing the seats in your car basic?

I don't think it was the act of physically removing seats that tripped it though. It was leaving the doors open.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#43

Post by gruez » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #20

cm2187 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happens if someone tries to steal a car in a cark park?

They can joyride around inside the parking garage as long as they like.

Or disable/jam the antenna and joyride indefinitely

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#44

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

There are dozens of car companies, so the market is working. Government regulation exists because your desire to buy a “simple” car impacts my ability to breathe. You can buy very simple vehicles for off road use.

Fixing broken cars became a cultural thing because cars really sucked and you had to waste a fair portion of your life fixing them. Things like emission regulation brought metrics and standards to the industry and resulted in better cars. The typical lifespan of a car is 2x what is was in the 80s (200k miles or 12 years).

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#45

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:28 PM UTC

sollewitt wrote: post #35

smitty1e wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

Alternative answer: because the market for what you want is too small relative to the cost of producing the thing you want.

Except that the cost of producing that is not actually high. Individuals have built cars out of parts in their own garage. You don't think there is anyone willing to make millions of dollars by producing a thousand of them for the thousand people who want them?

But not if the fixed regulatory overhead is equal to the margin on twenty thousand cars.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#46

Post by rjsw » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

short_sells_poo wrote: post #18

sandworm101 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are full-sized spots. People with oversized vehicles and who rent spots normally park astrive the line, not across at 45. That is done by someone who doesn't want anyone near his car. And even if this guy has rented two spots, that is still being a jerk to all the other people who want to rent/use spots. Do that around my town and you will find motorcycles parked in the triangles you have left behind. I saw a p…

I observe no directionality pattern among people who rent two spots. Do you have a large sample set that you are extrapolating your assumptions from? I'm a person who rents multiple spots next to each other. And yes if the garage is willing to rent out multiple spots to me, I'll absolutely park however I like, generally in such a way as to prevent people from boxing me in. Unfortunately parking in Europe is a fairly…

I would guess that the most common medical condition for needing to use disabled spots is "can't park".

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#47

Post by vibrolax » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

My guess is the product you want to buy is on offer, but not at the price you are willing to pay. Do It Yourself is the market solution for people who want something different than what is offered in the mass market. The internet has enabled truly insane levels of DIY capability. Capitalism is not a charity. Therefore people that want products that cannot be sold profitably in the mass market can make it themselves, or buy it from the hobbyist/enthusiast market.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#48

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

> why is the product I want to buy not on offer

Because the folks that ask this type of question are few and far between, and rarely serious. Otherwise, at least one manufacturer would have brown diesel wagons with manual transmissions. ;-)

Maybe 1 in 1000 people wrench on their own car. Manufacturers don't cater to that. They design cars to be appealing to the other 999, and they design the mechanical bits to be as cheap as possible to assemble in a factory.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#49

Post by LeonM » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #20

cm2187 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what happens if someone tries to steal a car in a cark park?

They can joyride around inside the parking garage as long as they like.

> They can joyride around inside the parking garage as long as they like.

No, the car will be disabled due to the anti-theft system. The anti theft system doesn't need connectivity to work.

It does need connectivity to be disabled remotely by Ferrari. However, that is never needed during normal operation. The owner of the Ferrari modified the car (after market seats, apparently), causing the anti-theft function to immobilize the car as a safety measure.

Re: Ferrari is bricked during upgrade due to no mobile reception while underground

#50

Post by klyrs » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

smitty1e wrote: post #22

aloukissas wrote: post #3

Analog cars uber alles :)

Serious question: I think there is a market for a dirt-simple, stripped down car like the original Jeep. If capitalism is so swift, why is the product I want to buy not on offer? Answer: the market is captured, and controlled via government regulation, by corporations that do not see individual owners wrenching on their cars as advantageous. Follow-up: how do we restore capitalism to our (nominally) free market?

You can frame it as regulatory capture, but to a large extent, it's more about environmental and consumer protections that the auto industry has spent decades fighting.

As somebody who drives an ancient car, I'm keenly aware of its lack of safety features. The "american steel" argument falls flat; my car was made before the concept of crumple zones, much less airbags -- driving this boat, I'd be seriously injured or die in a head-on collison with a Yaris, where the other driver and passengers would probably walk away. Unless my gas tank explodes and engulfs us all, that is.

If everybody was driving pre-1984 vehicles, the emissions would result in horrible smog, bringing most cities on par with Beijing.

The world must bring carbon emissions down to prevent severe climate change. Maybe lax safety standards could contribute to that; but environmental regulations must not go.

Follow up: the "free" market that you propose is not actually free, but ignorant of externalities that the modern market has limited facilities to account for.