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Removing Holocaust Denial Content

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Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#121

Post by dotancohen »

myko wrote: post #33
noetokyo wrote: post #4

Here is Facebook trying to desperately clean up in the hopes of appeasing the antitrust regulators.

This will do the opposite though I think - most of the "antitrust" arguments targeting Facebook seem to be upset that this type of content is being removed / Facebook (and YouTube, Twitter) have too much power in what we see/read.

    > have too much power in what we see/read.
You choose to type h t t p facebook dot com into your browser. They have absolutely not power in what you see or read, you go there voluntarily. Just stop going there.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#122

Post by ohno1111 »

Great.

What should we do with content that glorifies or lies about the genocide of indigenous people in the Americas (e.g. anything that glorifies Columbus and the history implied by Thanks Giving Day)

Same goes for content that aligns with current day denial that racism is a huge problem in this country and across the globe?

In the end, it's the same net result: people die of hate crimes because of lack of awareness and the perpetuation of content that implicitly upholds white supremacist thinking.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#123

Post by shrubble »

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #95
shrubble wrote: post #60

It's how it starts though, with an easy target... when say 3 years from now, you can't criticize FB for their known co-operation with the surveillance programs of the government without having your content automatically detected and removed, you might have a different view. This is only because of FB's refusal to let you more easily control what is seen on your feed. You controlling the feed settings would remove FBs…

Come on. First they came for the Nazis?

My point is, this is only an issue because FB wants you to continue to cede the power over your feed ( your attention) to them.

No one on my feed, of any group or any friends, are holocaust deniers.

So I would never see any such content, if my feed was fully under my control, correct?

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#124

Post by gridlockd »

ignoramous wrote: post #14

Admirable move. I think Facebook (and all its properties), Twitter, and other hyper-connected social networks must show a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall, especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves. This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speec…

> This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speech and free society intact, one where the tolerant voices aren't drained out by the relentlessness and irrationality of the intolerant.

Where is the evidence that this is true? Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

In many European countries, Holocaust denial is literally a crime, yet de-facto Neonazi parties are more popular than in the US, where no law stops you from brandishing a swastika flag.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#125

Post by kaibee »

nailer wrote: post #73
vorpalhex wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you have them weigh in on the Armenian Genocide, Holodomor, or Tianenman? Each of those conflicts has deniers of various levels, some of whom are states. And, if Facebook gets it wrong (and perhaps decides the Tianenman square massacre was a hoax by the West to discredit the CCP) - how should we respond then? This is a company that was censoring pictures of mothers feeding their babies, but still has conten…

I'm not sure why this is downvoted. There are many people, particularly in Tukey, who deny the Armenian genocide (hell there's a even a podcast named after the people that did it). Tiananmen is also downplayed by CCP officials outside China and denied within China.

> (hell there's a even a podcast named after the people that did it)

This isn't exactly accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Turks

Unless you're also condemning Rod Stewart as being pro Armenian genocide or something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEW5XLnQRx8

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#126

Post by hef19898 »

nailer wrote: post #98
duxup wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves" To me that seems like a pretty clear line. Some groups will invariably try to straddle it, but plenty of groups on Facebook make it quite clear their level of hate for others.

Sure: > This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speech and free society intact, one where the tolerant voices aren't drained out by the relentlessness and irrationality of the intolerant. Could easily be used to ban Islam on Facebook. Or Scientology. Or far left / far right governments. Or Antifa / Proud Boys / other vigilante groups. Or popular…

It kind of is a legal requirement in Germany already, so there is this.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#127

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #114

How are they going to determine what is HD? Some scholars get labeled denialists because they have different estimates for the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. Seems worrying to have FB moderators determining what's acceptable historical debate and what is wrongthink.

Citation needed? Which scholars, what are their claims / papers, and who reviewed their work?

I mean I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers used now are not entirely correct, but if there's unscientific work being done to downplay it, they're in their right to brand it as holocaust denial.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#128

Post by globular-toast »

ignoramous wrote: post #14

Admirable move. I think Facebook (and all its properties), Twitter, and other hyper-connected social networks must show a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall, especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves. This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speec…

> a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall

How can you tell if they are beyond reason if you are not allowed to read their arguments?

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#129

Post by clairity »

ignoramous wrote: post #14

Admirable move. I think Facebook (and all its properties), Twitter, and other hyper-connected social networks must show a healthy level of intolerance towards groups and ideologies that are beyond reason and recall, especially when those said groups are overtly and unmistakably intolerant themselves. This heavy-handedness isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speec…

> "..isn't an encroachment on free speech but a necessary impediment to keep the spirit of free speech and free society..."

a necessary impediment? no reasonable person denies the holocaust, but it's also not reasonable to try to suppress denial, no matter the desire, because that has its own paradoxical consequences.

it's the same overbearing fear-driven irrationality that gets us into lockdowns that destroy lives and livelihoods rather than accepting that heightened risks are not going away no matter what we do, providing accurate (not politicized) information widely, and then trusting people to act appropriately (and diversely).

the drive to the same application of force and authoritarianism you're trying to deny is astonishing.

Re: Removing Holocaust Denial Content

#130

Post by Rapzid »

operatorius wrote: post #9

Wish this would apply as well to the Armenian genocide denial content and other genocides in general. Cause, you know, there have been many more other genocides throughout the history but apparently there is only one that fits the Western/Eurocentric view

That's not really true, there are a very large number of recognized genocides. There's only one we accidentally stopped though.
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