Abolish the Cash Bail System

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 12:36 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #138

0xBA5ED wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it is much better that a few folks don't show up to trial than to criminalize being poor. >Why the heck would we put low-and-medium risk folks in jail, to be put in a position to lose their job, house, and freaking children, when we can do these other things that don't criminalize poverty while having less disruption of life? Keep in mind, it isn't easy to suddenly and accidentally get thrown in jail. If the…

> Keep in mind, it isn't easy to suddenly and accidentally get thrown in jail. Have you not paid attention to any protest in the US whatsoever in the past 10-15 years? It's VERY easy to get thrown in jail, even when judges have ruled mere months before that it's illegal for police to keep arresting protesters.

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 12:37 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #211

sokoloff wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does forced to use a bondsman mean? Just that you can’t post your own bond from your pocket (which some jurisdictions allow, but how often does one have a bail amount of money in their pocket)? I bonded someone out a few decades ago and instantly became a bondsman by so doing. (I have no other connection to the industry before or, thankfully, since.) Based on the stream of paperwork I received threatening me wit…

That is exactly what it means: Sometimes, the courts won't allow you to just post bail, but force you to pay a bondsman. There is no choice. (My brother had this stipulation when he was 17). And it isn't that you can pay for them out of your pocked. You would have had to go to a business, pay them, and they pay the courts.

Post by gowld » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 12:38 PM UTC

meragrin_ wrote: post #160

btashton wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that even studies by the US Department of Justice show that risk of financial loss has one of the lowest impacts on likely to appear in court. This is also not recent discovery, this was heavily researched in the 70s. Ironically just releasing people as soon as possible actually has one of the largest impacts on making sure people show. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/32349NCJRS.pdf https://www.nc…

Is it about risk of financial loss or about setting up a financial incentive for a third-party to bring the person in?

Post by gowld » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 12:40 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #132

krsdcbl wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't really see the pro side. Assuming the accused is guilty and financially well able to pay for bail, this sounds like a pretty good deal to me to just drop some cash, write it off, and be able to leave and never show up for trial. Assuming the accused is innocent and financially unable to pay for bail, they'll end up in jail without ever having committed a crime. Like so much else in the US, it's showi…

It's not like you can forfeit the bail, skip the trial and then just walk away scot-free. There's now a warrant out for your arrest and an additional charge, and you've torpedoed pretty much any chance of leniency. If it's a serious enough crime, they will come looking for you, and you will not be offered bail a second time. If it wasn't too serious, they might not come looking for you, but you'll have an active warr…

Post by rlpb » Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 12:46 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #25

ketzo wrote: post #2

Absolutely. It’s one of the most cruel and predatory systems that I can imagine — regardless of the severity of your crime, your ability to go home and see your family is determined by your financial status? Christ. Give me a break. It’s also one of those policies that I literally can’t force myself to imagine a “pro” argument for. > Today, three out of five people in U.S. jails have not been convicted of a crime. Th…

Pro side: I don't see anything wrong with requiring a surety to ensure that people awaiting trial don't flee, in principle. It makes sure people are less likely to run away while at the same time doesnt force them to sit in jail while they await trial. It should be relative to your ability to pay, and the commercial bondsman industry seems messed up, but those are implementation details and not the core of the system…