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Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#241

Post by ios14 »

0xy wrote: post #65
ios14 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bananas and bowling balls. Based on your description, the situation you described is a shame and a failure of law enforcement to keep us safe. Not an encryption issue.

If law enforcement are this inept and incompetent, why should they be given easy-to-abuse access to private communication? Especially given we know that those with access regularly use it to spy on ex-girlfriends and other innocent civilians.

One unfortunate example doesn’t make for a case either way.

My understanding is that FB (for example) would hold the keys and turn over only when compelled via warrant. Not mass surveillance.

Also, Snowden’s propaganda has worked like a charm in sowing discord in American society. Without a doubt, even if you support his actions and cause 100%, concurrently the Russian government consider the NSA to be the crown jewel of the IC. And Snowden’s actions and ongoing politics support Russia’s long term “Active Measures” campaign against the United States.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#242

Post by a1369209993 »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #237
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what would it mean to have citizen wanting to increase control on citizen? The breakdown of the rule of law. It’s what happened in Athens and is why pure direct democracy doesn’t work: the tyranny of the majority [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

Somehow, this argument only gets deployed theoretically to justify per se minority rule, never to critique actually harmful policies enacted by a majority. It’s not like a minority in power is any less capable of tyranny.

> actually harmful policies enacted by a majority

To be fair, when's the last time you encountered any policies enacted by a majority? All Five Eyes countries are republics, not democracies.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#243

Post by jakelazaroff »

a1369209993 wrote: post #242
jakelazaroff wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow, this argument only gets deployed theoretically to justify per se minority rule, never to critique actually harmful policies enacted by a majority. It’s not like a minority in power is any less capable of tyranny.

> actually harmful policies enacted by a majority To be fair, when's the last time you encountered any policies enacted by a majority? All Five Eyes countries are republics, not democracies.

I think “tyranny of the majority” refers generally to policies made with majority support, not necessarily by referendum.

To your specific question, though: often! In the US, state constitutional amendments and local ordinances are often decided by popular vote. For example, voters in New Jersey are currently choosing whether to legalize marijuana.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#244

Post by hannofcart »

mmm_grayons wrote: post #209
hannofcart wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise of your argument seems to be that the number of victims that a weapon can be unleashed on should not be a criterion for banning it. Am I getting that right? If so, can I please be allowed to have my own private nuclear warhead? I promise to only use it as a deterrent against a similarly armed government getting too "oppressive". I promise not to set it off in a bout of drunken depression.

Ahh, I love the McNuke argument. It's like "what about the roads" but for firearms policy. I've actually thought pretty hard about it, but no, I don't think so, and I believe my reason is consistent with the ideology I expressed above. The issue with nukes is that it's simply not possible to detonate one without causing collateral damage. Fallout, radiation poisoning, etc. So the government can in fact act to keep th…

> The issue with nukes is that it's simply not possible to detonate one without causing collateral damage.

Sure, how about a howitzer then?

What you're failing to see or refusing to admit is that you too want to restrict access to weapons based on a certain threshold of collateral damage/body count each of them can inflict.

It's just that for some (perhaps most) of us, an AR-15 is way past our threshold.

As for the truck you mentioned that was used in France: if it's ever found that a certain truck model makes it particularly easy to run over people with, I bet my bottom dollar that soon after there will be legislation enacted restricting access to it.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#245

Post by zo1 »

LocalH wrote: post #202
zo1 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't accept that, and I won't accept it for my community. I live in a crime-ridden country. Here, we as honest citizens are building fences, walls, gated-communities, electric fencing, metal bars around our doors and windows, hiring private security, etc to combat the crime that the wider society is tacitly tolerating. People want security, and we're willing to forego things such as "privacy" in return for that. N…

So what happens if the security is successful, and the level of crime decreases substantially, and now the government uses its newfound powers of surveillance against the law-abiding populace?

If we think that is a possibility then I'd say we have bigger problems with government power, democracy and voting in general. And instead of using "privacy" as a proxy for those concerns, we should rather address the actual issue and concerns we have with the power we give to individuals without accountability and oversight.

Like why isn't the debate here revolving around the suggestion that we need to have processes, and super-secure, open and cryptographically secure audit of all government actions so that government "privacy" violations are immediately caught and addressed? Instead, we're asking government to solve some arbitrary problem called "privacy" because we think it'll prevent potential government abuse in the future?

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#246

Post by mmm_grayons »

hannofcart wrote: post #244
mmm_grayons wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, I love the McNuke argument. It's like "what about the roads" but for firearms policy. I've actually thought pretty hard about it, but no, I don't think so, and I believe my reason is consistent with the ideology I expressed above. The issue with nukes is that it's simply not possible to detonate one without causing collateral damage. Fallout, radiation poisoning, etc. So the government can in fact act to keep th…

> The issue with nukes is that it's simply not possible to detonate one without causing collateral damage. Sure, how about a howitzer then? What you're failing to see or refusing to admit is that you too want to restrict access to weapons based on a certain threshold of collateral damage/body count each of them can inflict. It's just that for some (perhaps most) of us, an AR-15 is way past our threshold. As for the t…

No, I don't want to restrict ownership of howitzers. Though personally, I'd prefer an M61 vulcan. So no, I wouldn't say I'd restrict based on body count.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#247

Post by zo1 »

LocalH wrote: post #200
afwe wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will have a hard time convincing people of this. Myself I don't agree. But I can see how it is appealing to privileged people who don't have to suffer petty crime themselves.

How do you propose we eradicate petty crime while still maintaining the most amount of liberty?

Large scale, automated and auditable camera surveillance coupled with AI, linked directly to a crime + mugshot database.

Do it right, and no liberty or privacy is lost for honest individuals. While petty thieves will lose liberty, of course.

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#248

Post by GhostVII »

innocenat wrote: post #173
elmo2you wrote: post #154

> Security alliance worries encrypted messaging apps can be used by bad actors Same goes for kitchen knives. I don't hear them call for banning those, or have every sale of one tracked and monitored (which would only illustrate the lunacy of their "argument" even more).

You are joking, but it's illegal in Japan to carry a locked-blade knives or folding knives with blade longer than 5.5cm. You need a solid reason to carry those, like if you just buy it from the shop (in the original package), or if you are a chef, etc.

I think that's pretty common, San Francisco has the same types of rules (3 inches is the max if I remember correctly).

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#249

Post by ben_w »

noir_lord wrote: post #220
LatteLazy wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually here in the UK the government did briefly consider banning all knives with points. I know right? Welcome to the nanny state. (from 2005 but it was brought up again last year...) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm#:~:text=%22Off...

I love the logic (or lack) with things like that. Are they also going to ban files and bar stock because give me those and you can make something utterly lethal.

A police officer came to my school and told the assembled students that sharpened rulers counted as knives.

(I never bothered checking if he was right or making it up).

Re: Five Eyes and Japan call for Facebook backdoor to monitor crime

#250

Post by pmachinery »

sebmellen wrote: post #230
pmachinery wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge swathes of post-war German police, judiciary, political personnel were Nazi Party members[0], but we don't attribute crimes carried out in the Third Reich to West (or East) Germany or its institutions. If you want to pretend the KGB, or the regime it operated under[1], was just the same as the NKVD under Stalin, then please provide examples of the same crimes (mass killings) occurring from 1954-1991. [0] https:/…

Allegedly 1800 people is not a > Huge [swath] of post-war German police, judiciary, political personnel And the Braunbuch is very dubiously sourced.

Living in denial and refusing to accept (historical) facts because you don't happen to like them is really not healthy.

"It's one of the country's worst-kept secrets. Yet questions still surround the presence of former Nazis and war criminals in West Germany's police, secret service (BND) and politics."

https://www.dw.com/en/stasi-files-shed-light-on-west-german-...

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