A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn • Hacker News Board

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#61

Post by _vbdg » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:01 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #53

thih9 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate? In what way? How would you proceed?

Use slightly more expensive other source of the same substance? It's like killing whales for oil just to burn it instead of using olive oil, or that stuff pumped from the ground and refined, or whatever. (as was done at various points in history) Kinda annoying how many people take this issue to mean "kill sharks or humans will die" when it's just about money.

There's also the concern of immediate availability, i.e. if shark-derived squalene is available today and the plant-derived version takes time to scale, we can't just start using that if we want to mass-produce a vaccine very quickly.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#62

Post by dajohnson89 » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

codingdave wrote: post #43

dotancohen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we only hear about it when less than 1/5 of that amount _might_ be sacrificed for human health. Stinks of agenda. Also, without context, is 500,000 a lot of sharks? How many exist in the wild? How many are needed to have a stable population? If we don't cull millions of sharks annually, what effect would that have? And what is "shark" in this context, anyway? There are dozens of fish species, at differing levels…

> Stinks of agenda. Everyone has an agenda. I don't see an agenda of conservation of our ecology as one we need to resist. Especially when their conclusion at the end is not just "Save the Sharks", but a hope that we will research other possible ingredients instead of just running with the first working prototype.

agreed but the article says that nonanimal sources are more expensive than sharks. so research isn't what's needed, but rather (arguably) things like state provided incentives.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#63

Post by tpoacher » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

Counterattack: Equip Sharks with Frikkin Laser Beams (tm).

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#64

Post by LudwigNagasena » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

esperent wrote: post #51

bufferoverflow wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it change the fact that they are mass-murdered for cosmetics?

Yes, a lot. Even if you're a die hard animal rights activist, can't you see that 3.2 million deaths from a population of a hundred million (say) is a much smaller deal than 3.2 million from a population of ten million? One means possible extinction of a species, the other does not.

If you are not an animal rights activist, it may be hard to see why preserving a species matters at all.

It seem to be of no importance. And as long as humans are concerned, it may even be the reverse, heuristically. The bigger species is (measured by total weight, for example), the more important it may be for sustaining the ecosystem.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#65

Post by xwdv » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

shekharshan wrote: post #21

It’s more upsetting to know that over 2.7 million are killed for cosmetics. Humans truly know how to dispense misery on mass scale.

Life is misery.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#66

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #57

FiberBundle wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my understanding is that the virus jumped from some species, which was sold under absolutely miserable conditions in a wet market in Wuhan, to humans. I find it almost comical that someone would be completely fine with more animal exploitation given that this was the reason humans were infected in the first place.

It's more of a matter of human population expanding to cover the entire surface of the earth than anything else. There's no evidence the last SARS outbreaks in China was from wet markets. Much like there's no evidence it was from wet markets this time. Fish are very stupid animals without much brain. It is definitely worth it to kill 500k of them to help save a bunch of human lives.

Strange, all of that seems to be wrong. It was wet markets; people are not growing populations any more; it's worth it to kill ~2 million of them for cosmetics so certainly half a million to save lives is reasonable.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#67

Post by ReptileMan » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #7

morceauxdebois wrote: post #4

Just think of the long term co2 savings we could make by not stopping the virus.

"Let's save the Earth by letting loads of people die"?

Single variable optimizations lead to funky results sometimes.

Unfortunately every major problem humanity faces today can be solved with properly targeted elimination of mass of people.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#68

Post by dcolkitt » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #46

dotancohen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we only hear about it when less than 1/5 of that amount _might_ be sacrificed for human health. Stinks of agenda. Also, without context, is 500,000 a lot of sharks? How many exist in the wild? How many are needed to have a stable population? If we don't cull millions of sharks annually, what effect would that have? And what is "shark" in this context, anyway? There are dozens of fish species, at differing levels…

Mass-murdering sharks for cosmetics is unethical and evil. They feel the pain just like we do.

On pure utilitarian grounds, sharks are all carnivores who kill thousands of other animals over their life in horrific, painful ways.

That doesn’t mean that there’s not environmental reasons to justify shark conservation. But from the standpoint of animal suffering killing apex predators is almost certainly a net good.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#69

Post by david-gpu » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:16 PM UTC

laichzeit0 wrote: post #36

cameronbrown wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let's save the Earth by letting loads of people die"?

Let’s be a bit more pragmatic about it: what are the typical characteristics of the “loads of people” that would be dying? Here’s a hint: it’s not the young and healthy.

A society that does not protect the elderly and the sick is not a place where I want to live.

Re: A Coronavirus Vaccine Could Kill Half a Million Sharks, Conservationists Warn

#70

Post by jagger27 » Sun, Oct 11, 2020, 1:17 PM UTC

superkuh wrote: post #57

FiberBundle wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, my understanding is that the virus jumped from some species, which was sold under absolutely miserable conditions in a wet market in Wuhan, to humans. I find it almost comical that someone would be completely fine with more animal exploitation given that this was the reason humans were infected in the first place.

It's more of a matter of human population expanding to cover the entire surface of the earth than anything else. There's no evidence the last SARS outbreaks in China was from wet markets. Much like there's no evidence it was from wet markets this time. Fish are very stupid animals without much brain. It is definitely worth it to kill 500k of them to help save a bunch of human lives.

Excuse the ad hominem, but did you miss the food chain class in elementary school? “Very stupid” has exactly “fuck all” to do with how important they are to the ecology of the oceans. If the ocean food chain collapses, there’s no coming back from that for millennia. Like, what?

This compound is found in wheat! Wheat!