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“I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

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21–30 of 145 posts

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#21
post #11
post #6

As a former writer of telemarketing software it's nice to have missile guidance software developers that I can feel somewhat morally superior to. But in their defense at least missiles can be used in a non-evil way, but I'm not so sure about telemarketing software.

I am curious as to how missiles (or any weapon for that matter) could be used in "non-evil" way

Shooting them at something that is going to hurt more people. Eg. at artillery that is setting up to fire on a populated city.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#22
post #13

>i don't remember what it was exactly that he said after that but he explained to us the value of considering the ethics of the software you're writing prior to writing it, and it was one of the most impactful things i ever learned in school, period How is the US having accurate weapons unethical? These hypocrites never seem all that concerned about the war-making capacity of China, Russia, Iran, or other rogue state…

What does "rogue states" mean, in your view?

(Also, what does "hypocrite" mean, in your view? I'm used to it meaning "one who denounces behavior in others while engaging in the same behavior themselves," which doesn't seem to apply here, I think, since the person in question ceased engaging the behavior he denounces, and as you point out, we have no record of him denouncing anyone else doing it.)

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#23
post #7
post #5

I don't agree with this mentality. If you are helping a dictator or authoritarian regime, sure. I think it is in the wrong side of the story. But helping out the US in developing high-precission weapons does the opposite. 1. It might save lifes, as the alternative is dumb carpet bombing. As we know during WW2, carpet bombing killed mostly civilians and destroyed cities. 2. Most weapons that the US has, are there for…

I don't necessarily disagree with your points, though I might debate most of them. #2 however strikes me as pretty darn optimistic. Recent history suggests that the US doesn't have much hesitation about using their weapons.

Very few of the US’s weapons have been used. They have the capacity to blow up the whole world many times over, and end up attacking a minuscule portion of the population.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#24
post #13

>i don't remember what it was exactly that he said after that but he explained to us the value of considering the ethics of the software you're writing prior to writing it, and it was one of the most impactful things i ever learned in school, period How is the US having accurate weapons unethical? These hypocrites never seem all that concerned about the war-making capacity of China, Russia, Iran, or other rogue state…

It's ethical to do unethical things because other "worse" people do unethical things?

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#25

Simply as an observation, it’s interesting that serving in the military is usually treated as honorable, but working at a defense contractor is viewed as unethical. I wonder why that is?

My guess is that some people view defense contractors as being responsible for lobbying/corruption that encourages more wars in order to earn profit (they're the corrupting part of the military-industrial complex). I don't know to what extent this actually occurs though.

The military is mostly reacting to the executive branch and doesn't have the same perceived corrupting influence.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#26
post #5

I don't agree with this mentality. If you are helping a dictator or authoritarian regime, sure. I think it is in the wrong side of the story. But helping out the US in developing high-precission weapons does the opposite. 1. It might save lifes, as the alternative is dumb carpet bombing. As we know during WW2, carpet bombing killed mostly civilians and destroyed cities. 2. Most weapons that the US has, are there for…

[deleted]

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#27
For me the thorny ethical issue is not so much working on directly evil stuff like missile targeting software for the military but software that has both military and civilian use. For example, consider a company that develops and RTOS that is used in both cars and missiles, where does that stand morally? Even the most benign technology can be used for evil so it's worth asking the question to what culpability individual bear for who their company sells their software to. In the case of SpaceX, I’m sure much of the code is the same between the military and the NASA use cases.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#28
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this extend to all countries that the US sells weapons to? Are you happy about the use of US weapons by Saudi Arabia against Yemen, for example?

The U.S. selling weapons to Saudi Arabia doesn't harm U.S. interests in any way, but it's profitable and benefits the weapons industry, which is good from a self-defense perspective.

[deleted]

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#29

Simply as an observation, it’s interesting that serving in the military is usually treated as honorable, but working at a defense contractor is viewed as unethical. I wonder why that is?

Presumably because soldiers are at putting themselves at risk while defense contractors are generally not.

Re: “I just woke up one morning and it struck me that I was a murderer. so I quit.”

#30
post #11
post #6

As a former writer of telemarketing software it's nice to have missile guidance software developers that I can feel somewhat morally superior to. But in their defense at least missiles can be used in a non-evil way, but I'm not so sure about telemarketing software.

I am curious as to how missiles (or any weapon for that matter) could be used in "non-evil" way

Technology is just a tool, ethics depends on the user.

Study history: WWII, Cold War, etc. If you play nice with dictators, you will be annihilated. We have been enjoying the benefits of freedom and democracy our ancestors fought for, without considering the costs of their sacrifices.

Extensive data and studies (ex: Zimbardo, Milgram) supports that humans have immense capacity for evil- checks and balances are there to avoid this dark side of human nature.

Missiles are there to deter evil (order), not necessarily to propagate it (chaos). So there you have it.

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