Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#351

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

tripzilch wrote: post #345

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the whole point here is that this line of reasoning is limited. If Apple were indiscriminately ordering protestor channels to be taken down, we wouldn't accept an excuse that suppressing protestors is "considered more normal" in Belarus, or an argument that the unique context of Belarus means they have no choice but to restrict speech in ways America wouldn't. So if Apple has strong principles against doxxing peo…

Apple is completely out of place meddling in Belarus' politics. Not only that, the stance they are taking is with a dictator who stole the election ...

Apple absolutely shouldn't meddle in Belarus's politics. But if Belarusian users are using their platform to incite violence, as Apple says they are, don't they have a moral responsibility to try and do something about it?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#352

Post by airstrike » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #335

newbie578 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love when hypocrisy like this is exposed, and I would love it even more for Tim Apple to answer that question. Can we start a GoFundMe to have Tim answer it?

>Can we start a GoFundMe to have Tim answer it? Who do you want to fund? Tim or the Question? Or do you think he should just answer questions if he's paid for it, because Apple has zero responsibility at all...oh right they don't.

I think the idea is to fund a collaborative effort to nag Mr. Cook until he answers the question

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#353

Post by vbezhenar » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:54 PM UTC

marketingPro wrote: post #291

vbezhenar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China would threaten to ban iPhones, surely Apple will block websites. The difference is that governments can block websites without Apple approval. But governments can't block app content without blocking the entire AppStore, so they have to reach Apple.

This isn't how technology works. I feel weird saying something so obvious to me but- Servers/databases have IP addresses that can be blocked just as easy to stop and App.

Telegram uses advanced techniques to avoid blocking. You can't just block few IP addresses and call it a day. AFAIK Telegram servers deliver IP addresses of proxy servers via silent Apple Push Notification. Censors have no way of blocking or intercepting those messages. They can only block Apple servers thus disrupting the entire Apple ecosystem from work.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#354

Post by zepto » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

VHRanger wrote: post #283

oefrha wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not like Indian/U.S. government didn’t ask Google to take down TikTok from the Play Store. As long as they operate an app store, they will be a target. Just might not be the only target.

You can sideload tiktok on your android if you're so inclined.

So what? If that was a practical means of installing it for most people, the governments would go after whoever hosts the APK.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#355

Post by christophilus » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

relativeadv wrote: post #344

christophilus wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, “others” is vague. Tim’s doing plenty for others. Belarus’ politicians are others. Xi and friends are others.

ok

It was sarcasm.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#356

Post by rudewater » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

polote wrote: post #332

What's interesting here, early today the most upvoted comments where very negative towards Apple, and now that the US people have woken up, the most upvoted comments are closer to have a neutral tone. Actually I was surprised this morning to see Apple criticized on HN (40% of HN visitors use Apple devices, Windows 21 %, Linux 8% and Android 15% ) as it is rarely the case, the explanation is simple, Apple fanboys were…

Apple fanboys or bots/troll farms? I'm genuinely concerned about how many of these comments are not made by real people.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#357

Post by zepto » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:56 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #257

Iv wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if this were not a demand from the Belarus government, threatening sanctions on Apple, possibly with Russian support. The Belarus government can just block the App store entirely and may, if Apple does not comply.

> The Belarus government can just block the App store entirely and may, if Apple does not comply. So what??? Protestors are being imprisoned and tortured, they actually hanged protest organizers from trees, as a scare tactic, does Apple really want to go on public record as an enabler of this? It is ethically abhorrent, disgusting and beyond terrifying. If the team responsible for this at Apple is reading this thread…

Are you planning to dox Apple employees?

That seems like the logical conclusion if you think they have blood on their hands.

It seems like a little much to call Apple an ‘enabler’ for being against doxing.

Just because protesters use a tactic doesn’t mean everyone needs to support it, especially if it is a tacit call to violence.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#358

Post by projectileboy » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

Employees, how do you feel about this? This isn’t “iTunes is still hard to use”, this is helping to shut down people who are fighting against fascism.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#359

Post by supportlocal4h » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 2:00 PM UTC

torben-friis wrote: post #304

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or they could make Apple remove the telegram app. Which is effective primarily because there’s no (practical) way to sideload on iOS! This is why I’ve always seen the locked-down nature of the iPhone as a threat to free expression first and foremost. Apple is responsible for setting the system up this way.

I don't fully buy this idea, because I've never seen an app become successfully widespread through side loading. The technical friction is just too high for non technical users. I agree that we need a solution to monopolistic app stores though.

Why does a single app have to be widespread to matter? This is exactly the case where a small group would want a particular app because their life and freedom depend on it. They're not looking to put Facebook out of business or be the next big world fad.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#360

Post by nichos » Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

newbie578 wrote: post #309

latexr wrote: post #259

Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1] has the following: > “Life's most persistent and urgent question is, 'What are you doing for others?'” - MLK Considering this and the HKmap.live[2] situations, I’d say that in his case the answer to that question is “not much”. [1]: https://twitter.com/tim_cook [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKmap.live

I love when hypocrisy like this is exposed, and I would love it even more for Tim Apple to answer that question. Can we start a GoFundMe to have Tim answer it?

Not sure he needs the money.