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Good sleep, good learning, good life

supermemo.guru

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Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#31

Post by sradman »

bd_beats wrote: post #26
sradman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SuperMemo algorithms [1] have been re-implemented in more modern software such as Anki [2]. These systems are popular for goal oriented learning like studying for a test or learning a new language. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperMemo#Algorithms [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anki_(software)

Anki's SRS algotihm is based on SM2 and is woefully outdated in comparison to SM's SRS algo. Additionally SM is much more feature rich once you get into incremental reading and fully optimizing your learning experience. Sure the UI isn't a nice flashy Electron.js app, but SM is a titan compared the terminate that is Anki.

I was thinking of platform support [1]:

> The method is available as a computer program for Windows, Windows CE, Windows Mobile, (Pocket PC), Palm OS (PalmPilot), etc.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperMemo

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#33

Post by Smithalicious »

This article is full of pie in the sky things that are impossible for normal people needing to earn a living.

> do not wake up kids for school; if they cannot wake up in time, let them skip a class or two, or consider homeschooling

This, for instance, is entirely illegal (at least in my country, The Netherlands).

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#34

Post by rajlego »

roel_v wrote: post #12

It's been a while since there have been posts on Supermemo here (meta: I miss the times when HN was mostly about bootstrapping software businesses, nootropics and self hacking), so I'm wondering - are there people who (still) use Supermemo or similar software for actual learning, and not memorizing for its own sake, as a party trick basically (which I feel is its main use case, at least in the way it's in the news)?…

Yeah, the Discord SuperMemo community has grown actually a fair bit over the last year: https://discord.gg/vUQhqCT

I myself only started using SuperMemo over the last 2 years but I think in the last 1, I've seen lots of friends get massively better and I'm looking forward to what we create over the next 5 years.

In terms of new implementations, one thing I'm excited about is dendro: https://dendro.com.au/.

It's made by a long-term supermemo user and some other friends and I think is the best shot at a modern incremental reading alternative to SuperMemo. It's missing lots of features and is aimed at bring IR to the masses rather than power users but I personally like it and find it good enough to use on my phone when I'm on the go.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#35

Post by joveian »

sradman wrote: post #23
joveian wrote: post #11

There is a lot of info here and much I agree with but without reading the whole thing a few things I noticed that I disagree with: 1) the fatal result of rats being tortured to deprive them of sleep seems to have been traced to oxidative stress in the gut (there was an article on this here not that long ago) 2) while I don't have an easy reference, a number of studies have found that even strenuous exercise before be…

Regarding 1: Sleep loss lethality is caused by gut ROS in mice and flies [1] > ...researchers demonstrate in flies and mice that sleep loss leads to an increase of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the gut, and that neutralization of ROS can prevent oxidative stress and prolong the lifespan of sleep-deprived flies. Various biological systems seem to have recovery mechanisms associated with the sleep cycles. These cycl…

Thanks for the link.

Lots of companies have products with claimed effects or measurment of sleep but personally I suspect they are almost always complete BS. I've used a recording pulse oximeter when sleeping a number of times and the pulse seems to reliably predict when I get to sleep but nothing else, not even when I am awake vs. sleeping. IMO, there is no possible way a pulse measurement could replace an EEG. I am also not convinced that sleep tracking would be helpful at all for most people, at least beyond keeping a log with a basic estimate of how much sleep you think you got and how long you were in bed. And even that seems only rarely useful, mostly because I've found it isn't obvious when I've had a month where I slept quite a bit less than usual. So maybe the helpful part is putting it in a spreadsheet and doing some statistics. But for most people I would guess that doing any sleep tracking would cause some disruption and be more harmful than helpful.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#36

Post by kqr »

My main takeaway from reading this a year ago is different than what most people have focused on in the comments so far. In my current life situation, lack of alarm clock (in the shape of an infant) and free running sleep are simply not possible.

However, this article does highlight the importance and naturalness of a mid-day nap. When reading this I started practising mid-day naps at my desk, but I never really learned to do it until other things got in the way and I started forgetting about it. Maybe I should try again.

At the very least, I encourage anyone to stand up for the right to take a mid-day nap, even if you don't personally use that right.

If you feel like you could use a nap, napping is probably the responsible thing to do. If we defend that position with evidence, maybe we can slowly change the culture at work to not look down upon it.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#37

Post by rajlego »

vertak wrote: post #24
roel_v wrote: post #12

It's been a while since there have been posts on Supermemo here (meta: I miss the times when HN was mostly about bootstrapping software businesses, nootropics and self hacking), so I'm wondering - are there people who (still) use Supermemo or similar software for actual learning, and not memorizing for its own sake, as a party trick basically (which I feel is its main use case, at least in the way it's in the news)?…

Yes. Check out this article that is half an essay on quantum computing and half a call to action for using spaced repetition (the main idea behind supermemo) as a new medium for learning. https://quantum.country/

I would disagree :) I think the main idea of SuperMemo (now) is actually incremental reading: https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Incremental_reading though it is nowhere near as popular as spaced repetition. I think we'll see more alternate implementations of IR pop up over the next few years.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#38

Post by rajlego »

joveian wrote: post #11

There is a lot of info here and much I agree with but without reading the whole thing a few things I noticed that I disagree with: 1) the fatal result of rats being tortured to deprive them of sleep seems to have been traced to oxidative stress in the gut (there was an article on this here not that long ago) 2) while I don't have an easy reference, a number of studies have found that even strenuous exercise before be…

2) while I don't have an easy reference, a number of studies have found that even strenuous exercise before bed does not seem to impair sleep. As with everything sleep related there could easily be lots of individual variation but in general I don't think it usually causes trouble.

I think this might come down to heart rate. I've found that when I bike home at like 10 pm from somewhere say 30 minutes away, I'm fine now with sleep but when I first started biking back from somewhat far places I couldn't sleep well all night.

https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Circadian_phase I follow this graph from him and I've found that if I exercise at the time marked as "sports" even 1 hour isn't enough for my heartrate to lower which leads to a worse siesta nap. I'm hoping that long-term as I get more aerobically fit it becomes less of a problem.

More generally, I don't think the argument is that strenuous exercise impairs sleep. More that it effects your circadian rythm. iirc from talking to Woz, for him, sports make him more tired and bring sleep phase earlier and I think my experiences are somewhat similar, though both of us exercise in late morning.

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#39

Post by rajlego »

kqr wrote: post #36

My main takeaway from reading this a year ago is different than what most people have focused on in the comments so far. In my current life situation, lack of alarm clock (in the shape of an infant) and free running sleep are simply not possible. However, this article does highlight the importance and naturalness of a mid-day nap. When reading this I started practising mid-day naps at my desk, but I never really lear…

naps are AWESOME. Woz claims somewhere that without naps, his brain is at 60% or somesuch second half of day. Same for me (likely even worse since I usually don't get enough night sleep).

One reason I never want to work for a normal company is that I wouldn't be able to take naps. Not sure how I'd survive that.

One note for anyone reading this wanting to try naps: the timing matters a lot. Woz recommends napping around 7-8 hours from waking, NOT at a fixed time of day. (https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Best_time_for_napping).

There's lots of individual variance meaning it requires experimentation. For me, I usually take a nap between 5-7 hours from waking.

If you use supermemo/are interested in it, it has a thing called sleepchart (https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SleepChart) in which you can log sleep data and then see some cool graphs spit out (if you also use supermemo for learning, you can very cooly see correlations between sleep and repetition grades).

Re: Good sleep, good learning, good life

#40

Post by rajlego »

rajlego wrote: post #34
roel_v wrote: post #12

It's been a while since there have been posts on Supermemo here (meta: I miss the times when HN was mostly about bootstrapping software businesses, nootropics and self hacking), so I'm wondering - are there people who (still) use Supermemo or similar software for actual learning, and not memorizing for its own sake, as a party trick basically (which I feel is its main use case, at least in the way it's in the news)?…

Yeah, the Discord SuperMemo community has grown actually a fair bit over the last year: https://discord.gg/vUQhqCT I myself only started using SuperMemo over the last 2 years but I think in the last 1, I've seen lots of friends get massively better and I'm looking forward to what we create over the next 5 years. In terms of new implementations, one thing I'm excited about is dendro: https://dendro.com.au/ . It's made…

I guess I'll take this as a chance, for anyone not knowing SuperMemo: this video introduces basics of IR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NURjZuHvDaU

to actually try supermemo, you can get sm15 full for free or sm18 as a trial: https://supermemo.wiki/learn/#/

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