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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

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Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#131

Post by chii »

blazespin wrote: post #121
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #6

Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels/groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram? And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn't Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist gro…

To be fair, Telegram is a total nightmare. It's like bitcoin or Tor and dark web, it may facilitate anonymous free speech, but in doing so, it facilitates a helluva lot of crime. There has to be limits on freedom, you can't just be allowed to post bomb making plans on the internet or yelling fire in a crowded theatre

> you can't just be allowed to post bomb making plans on the internet or yelling fire in a crowded theatre

one is very different from the other. I agree yelling fire in a crowded place can't be allowed - causes people to panic, because it's not possible to 'unhear' a sound.

But posting bomb-making information (or really, any information) should be allowed. This information is voluntarily consumed, so it has no danger of causing harm without a person acting on said information (in which case, it's not the information but the person acting on it that is the problem). This applies to _any_ information, not just bomb making information.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#132

Post by afwe »

eitland wrote: post #130
afwe wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those notices really are irrelevant, right? I mean, there is nothing I can do to bypass them. It's bad UX, like showing a disabled button that I can't enable by any means. Having said this, you can still use Telegram Web on Safari to bypass these restrictions.

Spoken like a problematic ux-er ;-) Visible but disabled items can be important for discoverability. Knowing when and where to apply which ux rules is probably more important than knowing all the rules. FTR: I'm happy to work with what I think are good ux-ers so they certainly do exist.

Visible but disabled items are only useful if they can be enabled in a more-or-less obvious way. Showing a disabled item that you can't enable in any way is bad UX. Am I wrong?

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#133

Post by echelon »

notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

Please stop worshipping this company. It's not a force for good.

They've kicked us out of open computing by locking down the only computer a lot of folks own (iPhone). And now look what kind of shit they can pull because they own the entire stack! This shouldn't be possible!

We really have to push against this and hope the DOJ forces all phone providers to allow "side-loading" (what a bizarre term!)

The iPhone is a computer, not some gaming console. It has to be free for freedom. You should be able to install straight off the web.

And before you downvote me, please look again how much Apple gives a damn about democracy in the world. And look what it's doing because of its power. Double plus ungood.

It's an American device. It should act like it!

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#134

Post by grncdr »

afwe wrote: post #132
eitland wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a problematic ux-er ;-) Visible but disabled items can be important for discoverability. Knowing when and where to apply which ux rules is probably more important than knowing all the rules. FTR: I'm happy to work with what I think are good ux-ers so they certainly do exist.

Visible but disabled items are only useful if they can be enabled in a more-or-less obvious way. Showing a disabled item that you can't enable in any way is bad UX. Am I wrong?

Yes

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#135

Post by username90 »

afwe wrote: post #132
eitland wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like a problematic ux-er ;-) Visible but disabled items can be important for discoverability. Knowing when and where to apply which ux rules is probably more important than knowing all the rules. FTR: I'm happy to work with what I think are good ux-ers so they certainly do exist.

Visible but disabled items are only useful if they can be enabled in a more-or-less obvious way. Showing a disabled item that you can't enable in any way is bad UX. Am I wrong?

Knowing that Apple is preventing you from accessing it gives you a way to enable it again: By pressuring Apple to stop doing these shitty things. Same thing with displaying Apples 30% app cuts, if it was clearly shown everywhere likely people would pressure Apple to reduce it which is why you aren't allowed to show it.

Edit: Reading the article again, there is actually a very simple fix to view these posts: Go over to your friend with an android and access them to there, and then remember to buy android in the future to avoid censorship like this. This is surely the main reason Apple doesn't let them show this note.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#136

Post by akudha »

boudin wrote: post #70
saagarjha wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are you forced to follow whatever Apple tells you to do, you’re not allowed to communicate as such because it might make Apple look bad to users who don’t know any better. It’s really a quite inconvenient situation.

That's been a technique that apple have been using quite a bit. Forbid apps to be transparent with their customers around apple rules. This way app users are pissed at the app makers not apple.

Isn't this the same tactic that govt agencies use? Apple is simply borrowing the idea

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#137

Post by defkev »

pleasebegood wrote: post #25

Apple is a US company. If Belarus people want those channels, they should build their own device or get an android. I fully support apple taking action on violence and doxing rather than bending down to other country's people or apps like telegram. If tiktok refused to take down doxing of officials in US, it would get banned.

Following that "logic" Twitter, a US company, should've been banned a long time ago.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#139

Post by benjaminjosephw »

afwe wrote: post #83
notRobot wrote: post #20

https://t.me/durov/136 > Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”. Fucking hell, Apple. ---- cough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...

But those notices really are irrelevant, right? I mean, there is nothing I can do to bypass them. It's bad UX, like showing a disabled button that I can't enable by any means. Having said this, you can still use Telegram Web on Safari to bypass these restrictions.

The definitions of "irrelevant" and "bad UX" are obviously very subjective. Personally, I don't think good UX means stripping out the ability to see user intent and context just because it reduces friction.

Showing where user generated content has been censored and the rational as to why is definitely a feature I would want to have regardless of how inconvenient it might be - especially in the context of political discussions.

Re: Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

#140

Post by tinus_hn »

vetinari wrote: post #103
whyoh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one technical reason is that WhatsApp groups — unlike Telegram groups — use encryption. So Facebook doesn't know what goes on inside them.

That's just a theater. If anybody can join a group, there must be a way to distribute the keys to those who joined. Anybody can get a key then, including Whatsapp/Facebook.

The app makes sure only the people it thinks are in the channel get the keys. If you turn on the security notifications you can see how it works, you get a message when someone gets a new phone, that indicates they got a new key.

You can even check if it matches up if you meet in person or if you communicated using another medium.

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