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Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#91

Post by tstrimple »

DethNinja wrote: post #68
enumjorge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understandable. How do you propose we deal with the current wave of propaganda and misinformation that these platforms enable, especially since they’re already having a very real effect on politics all over the world?

Add critical thinking and logic lessons to school curriculum. Issue would be solved in about a generation but governments and large companies would hate that.

That will never happen in this country. The truth of the situation is, one political party benefits from this ignorance way more than the other, and they are protecting their investment in keeping the electorate ignorant.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2012-06-27/gop-op...

> "Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#92

Post by rndmize »

This headline is like saying "border patrol arrests extensive cartel smuggling network" after the feds grab a few dozen drug mules. The incentives are still there. The structure is still there. The opposing operating group is still there, untouched, as is the source of "contraband". We don't know how many networks exist; how many remain; how many operate successfully within Facebook/Twitter's rules while having the same effect as the banned ones (to extend the drug comparison, these would be the causes of the opioid crisis). On a structural level, I don't see how FB/Twitter can fix this, and don't think they would if they knew.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#93

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

tyre wrote: post #73
dilippkumar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So. What do you propose? Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing. There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense. The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club. There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your bel…

Again, fine in principle. Doesn’t stand up one second in the real world. I agree that the ideal of every adult is being educated, taking time to check facts, having a critical mind. But that’s not realistic. It’s not where we are. And the facts of democracy are that uneducated people vote. People unprepared for the internet crazies. They’re not handling Fox News as entertainment or tabloids. They think it’s real. So,…

My concern is that strong campaigns against disinformation might not actually help with this problem. They could make it worse, if people start to believe that Facebook and Twitter are sanitized media outlets that won't let you say the real truth.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#94

Post by Karunamon »

tyre wrote: post #80
Karunamon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having principles hurts sometimes. Sometimes they require you to do things that are painful with the understanding that the alternative is even worse. I'd gladly take a world with disinformation over a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say. I can work around the first problem with some effort much easier than the second one.

I mean yes having principles hurts but leaving social media as it is doesn’t make you Rosa Parks. We see a problem, we try to fix it. They’re not unaccountable. This whole thing is about holding them accountable! If they were completely unaccountable then they wouldn’t do any of this. Why is Facebook taking action against QAnon now when it hasn’t in the past year? Do you think they haven’t seen the polling data for t…

Why should Facebook (or any other platform) be accountable to anyone in particular for what the users of the platform say?

I get that, now, they've hoisted themselves by their own petard after years of inconsistent policies and enforcement, but I mean in a general sense.

>What does holding them accountable look like to you?

The opening paragraph of section 230 of the CDA, to wit:

"No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider"

There be far worse dragons than disinformation down the other roads. Let's take this to its logical conclusion - you've got people on the left upset about "conspiracy theories" (which is, itself, a pejorative term with problematic origins rooted in thought control), you've got people on the right upset about "bias" against their stances.

When both sides of the political aisle are demanding tighter control over speech for any reason, the intended result should terrify the hell out of you.

The problem you speak of is not "people say false things" (which is not solvable), the problem should rather be seen as "people demand the ability to censor people they disagree with". The solution to that problem is telling both sides to pound sand and take responsibility for their own beliefs, not foisting that responsibility off onto third parties in a way that necessarily restricts freedom of speech.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#95

Post by judofyr »

dilippkumar wrote: post #61
tyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

> So. What do you propose? Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing. There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense. The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club. There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your bel…

> Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing.

There are multiple places on the internet where you can access completely unmoderated content. 4chan and 8chan are two popular forums, and yet they are far from mainstream.

The fact is that moderation is a feature which people want. People don't want to go through 200 spam e-mails everyday. People don't want to spend tons of time going through bullshit.

Facebook and Twitter has never been about getting "unfiltered" news. Facebook became useful because your friends was there. Twitter became useful because you could read content from famous and skilled people.

> There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense.

And these will continue to exist on the internet. The only thing that's happening here is that Facebook and Twitter is taking a stance that they don't want to become part of this group. Is that so bad?

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#96

Post by dontcarethrow2 »

ahpearce wrote: post #49
Karunamon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having principles hurts sometimes. Sometimes they require you to do things that are painful with the understanding that the alternative is even worse. I'd gladly take a world with disinformation over a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say. I can work around the first problem with some effort much easier than the second one.

That is exactly the problem, though, isn't it? Unaccountable third parties are literally currently controlling the truth, via disinformation. An alarming number of people are convinced in conspiracies and untruths like the deep state, QAnon, anti-vax, flat earth... How is the ability to freely and massively distribute misinformation not a means of controlling the truth?

Controlling the truth via disinformation.? I admit I have horrible comprehension skills but it sounds like a smart enough statement when you repeat it enough, I just can't grep any meaning in this. Do they know the truth? You throw in the conspiracy groups and you have made yourself half a statement.

They're bad we get it, Id rather be able to hear how bad they are in the light. Who was accountable when we spread lies about WMDs in Iraq? That caused magnitudes of more damage than these groups, yet no one is held accountable even with Public figures. Do you want everyone accountable for misinformation silenced or just those you disagree with?

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#97

Post by gralx »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #83
gralx wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

If this were true, what would it affect about the argument?

We'd be taxing Twitter and Facebook to make up for everybody's failure in public education, which seems unfair.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#98

Post by convolvatron »

vorpalhex wrote: post #77
bilbo0s wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let's hope that people see it as a lesson and not somewhere they can bask in their confirmation bias" I'm not sanguine. Be honest, which would you bet on happening in the majority of cases? I wonder sometimes if it's almost part of some fundamental psychology?

Do you believe the general public is better at filtering out misinformation than they were 100 years ago? What about 500 years ago? It takes time but people do seem to get better at filtering out mis-information. I believe (and we have some evidence) that we can speed this up by helping teach critical dissection of articles and content and build the skill set to weigh sources. The problem will never go away entirely.…

the problem will never go away entirely because unless you're discussing the physical state of some matter, there really isn't any truth

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#99

Post by jeremyjh »

upofadown wrote: post #47

I guess this is the world's "Eternal September"[1]. Eventually everyone will understand how this all works and this will no longer be a significant issue. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Except Usenet never actually recovered and now is deader than disco. It was replaced for the most part with more aggressively moderated web forums with automated spam controls.
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