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Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#61

Post by dilippkumar »

tyre wrote: post #20
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t and they shouldn’t. The potential good that could come from this does not outweigh the catastrophic failure modes of this approach. Some enlightened people understood this, hundreds of years ago. Its time for another amendment. EDIT since this is related, another horrendous idea that recently disgraced my timeline https://twitter.com/yelp/status/1314197509623947265?s=21

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

> So. What do you propose?

Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing.

There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense.

The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club.

There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your beliefs. Often, those opinions will be the majority and you will be in the minority.

You learn early in life to ignore the crazy people on the sidewalk holding up signs and screaming about lizard-men running the government. You also learn early in life that politeness and civility will carry you a long way towards being respected in your community.

The internet is no different.

If you can’t function without a school teacher in the room, you aren’t ready for the adult world. We don’t need facebook or twitter or anyone else babysitting us as we go about our lives.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#62

Post by glial »

tyre wrote: post #20
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t and they shouldn’t. The potential good that could come from this does not outweigh the catastrophic failure modes of this approach. Some enlightened people understood this, hundreds of years ago. Its time for another amendment. EDIT since this is related, another horrendous idea that recently disgraced my timeline https://twitter.com/yelp/status/1314197509623947265?s=21

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

Banning ad-based news, or at least ad-funded social media. They only push garbage because it attracts eyeballs, which makes them money. Just like tabloids.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#63

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

gralx wrote: post #35
aresant wrote: post #21

Disinformation content works because it drives huge engagement. Huge engagement pays the bills for FB and twitter. If we expect change we need an analog to a carbon or pollution tax for social. “Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.”- Charlie Munger

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

I think your view of what misinformation looks like is a bit outdated. It's not just dumb chainmails anymore.

One claim I saw passed around recently, for example, was that this particular video on the White House lawn was greenscreened. The people I saw discussing it were saying things like "you can tell cause of how pixelated the background is" or "look, the trees are on a 10 second loop!". I don't know what we could put in the public education curriculum to stop people from falling for this kind of thing.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#64

Post by olivermarks »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #53
drawkbox wrote: post #33

Repeat after me, social media is not reality. Social media is the new tabloid salacious media. Yes it can be fun, entertaining, informative and educational, it can also be propaganda, misinformation, astroturfing, and a big high school like popularity contest where people are fake and narcissistic but probably insecure. The truth is the internet is teaching the biggest lesson ever in critical thinking and getting you…

> Social media is the new tabloid salacious media We’re living through a modern rehash of yellow journalism [1]. Both were spurned by free societies adapting to new communication technologies.

I'd also argue that what's left of the corporate media is rapidly losing credibility, highly partisan and rarely objective. this feeds social network frenzy, a lot of which is people parroting and attempting to amplify ideas from their preferred channels. There's always been a huge corporate yellow journalism problem, now it is possible to instantly orchestrate rage and frenzy repeated across countless personal accounts. Fear and hatred is highly corrosive....

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#65

Post by gpmcadam »

Honestly, I find Twitter's editorially driven hash-tag auto-complete and "trends" to be one of the biggest sources of misinformation out there.

It's laughable and frankly patronising that they even pretend to not have an opinion or a political leaning. The more they try to wiggle out of the Web of "disinformation", the more firmly they become lodged in it.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#66

Post by waterhouse »

zimpenfish wrote: post #44
Karunamon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having principles hurts sometimes. Sometimes they require you to do things that are painful with the understanding that the alternative is even worse. I'd gladly take a world with disinformation over a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say. I can work around the first problem with some effort much easier than the second one.

> a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say We already have that - and have had for centuries - the people who control the press control what gets presented as "truth". Look at Fox or any other Murdoch property for a perfect example. (cf "History is written by the winners" for another angle.)

And is Fox successful in determining what is okay to say? Do you see ordinary people afraid to say something because Fox said it was wrong? Facing social, professional, and even legal consequences for expressing disagreement with Fox?

There is competition in establishing the truth. Not as much as I'd like, but a decent amount. Reducing that competition would be bad.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#67

Post by ben_w »

gralx wrote: post #35
aresant wrote: post #21

Disinformation content works because it drives huge engagement. Huge engagement pays the bills for FB and twitter. If we expect change we need an analog to a carbon or pollution tax for social. “Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.”- Charlie Munger

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."

Engagement only measures engagement. I find Star Trek engaging, but one thing it isn’t is educational.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#68

Post by DethNinja »

enumjorge wrote: post #16
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t and they shouldn’t. The potential good that could come from this does not outweigh the catastrophic failure modes of this approach. Some enlightened people understood this, hundreds of years ago. Its time for another amendment. EDIT since this is related, another horrendous idea that recently disgraced my timeline https://twitter.com/yelp/status/1314197509623947265?s=21

Understandable. How do you propose we deal with the current wave of propaganda and misinformation that these platforms enable, especially since they’re already having a very real effect on politics all over the world?

Add critical thinking and logic lessons to school curriculum. Issue would be solved in about a generation but governments and large companies would hate that.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#69

Post by enumjorge »

Karunamon wrote: post #27
tyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

Having principles hurts sometimes. Sometimes they require you to do things that are painful with the understanding that the alternative is even worse. I'd gladly take a world with disinformation over a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say. I can work around the first problem with some effort much easier than the second one.

But the alternative doesn’t stop at misinformation. This propaganda is helping elect people like Trump who has expressed a desire to silence his critics through whatever means he has. I’d rather be censored by Facebook than the government.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#70

Post by AnimalMuppet »

root_axis wrote: post #54
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can’t and they shouldn’t. The potential good that could come from this does not outweigh the catastrophic failure modes of this approach. Some enlightened people understood this, hundreds of years ago. Its time for another amendment. EDIT since this is related, another horrendous idea that recently disgraced my timeline https://twitter.com/yelp/status/1314197509623947265?s=21

> The potential good that could come from this does not outweigh the catastrophic failure modes of this approach. Such as?

Such as, say, Fox News buying Facebook? Or Soros? Or RT buying Twitter? Or a Saudi sovereign wealth fund? Now how do you feel about Twitter and Facebook deciding what misinformation is?
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