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Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#81

Post by tenebrisalietum »

hirundo wrote: post #9

I don't trust Facebook or Twitter to distinguish disinformation from information. Why would anyone?

I don't use Facebook or Twitter as a serious source of news or foundational information. It's fun sometimes. If Facebook or Twitter disappeared tomorrow, society would not regress or be hurt in any way.

Anything that collects a mass number of likely untrained/uneducated people in a common space, where they can create a post record of anything with no restriction of content to the world at large, will never be a serious source of news or foundational information. You may sift through this and get something useful or interesting once in a while, but it is simply incapable of as a whole of being anything great.

The fact that these networks exist as primarily ad businesses is probably the best thing that can become of them.

The most useful/meaningful thing totally free/open social networks can do in a general sense is provide a venue for people to post raw media of events, such as crimes, etc. which can be useful if you are near that locality, but the comments and subsequent discussion have a very low chance of being anything but emotional expressions.

I am fine with whatever actions Facebook or Twitter take to do this if they feel the need. Facebook and Twitter are not government agencies. People choose to use them. People whine and bitch about how everyone they know are on Facebook and Twitter, but alternatives do exist and it is possible to use them. You can also just text/SMS your friends and family.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#82

Post by andy_ppp »

drawkbox wrote: post #33

Repeat after me, social media is not reality. Social media is the new tabloid salacious media. Yes it can be fun, entertaining, informative and educational, it can also be propaganda, misinformation, astroturfing, and a big high school like popularity contest where people are fake and narcissistic but probably insecure. The truth is the internet is teaching the biggest lesson ever in critical thinking and getting you…

We need a broadsheet social media that is (relatively) healthy for you.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#83

Post by SQueeeeeL »

gralx wrote: post #35
aresant wrote: post #21

Disinformation content works because it drives huge engagement. Huge engagement pays the bills for FB and twitter. If we expect change we need an analog to a carbon or pollution tax for social. “Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.”- Charlie Munger

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

If this were true, what would it affect about the argument?

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#84

Post by seph-reed »

bilbo0s wrote: post #57
drawkbox wrote: post #33

Repeat after me, social media is not reality. Social media is the new tabloid salacious media. Yes it can be fun, entertaining, informative and educational, it can also be propaganda, misinformation, astroturfing, and a big high school like popularity contest where people are fake and narcissistic but probably insecure. The truth is the internet is teaching the biggest lesson ever in critical thinking and getting you…

"Let's hope that people see it as a lesson and not somewhere they can bask in their confirmation bias" I'm not sanguine. Be honest, which would you bet on happening in the majority of cases? I wonder sometimes if it's almost part of some fundamental psychology?

It may very well be the cosmic filter.

Humans have a "truth default" in communication. We take almost everything we hear as fact by default. Bots will have no trouble at all making the majority of people think, see, and do whatever they want.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#86

Post by 754dvhy »

cryptica wrote: post #42
posixplz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook and Twitter don’t make the determinations alone. They contract internationally recognized fact checking organizations. Is it perfect? No. Do we need to curtail online disinformation at a platform-level? Yes, clearly we can’t rely on the critical thinking skills of the reader to make a rational determination — if we could, we wouldn’t have this problem in the first place. This and several posts on this thread…

>> They contract internationally recognized fact checking organizations. Is it perfect? No The fact-checking organizations have themselves been independently vouched for by several highly trusted organizations. They are as close to perfect as we can possibly get. Unfortunately there are too many bad actors in this country who are hell-bent on destroying our democracy. Huge segments of the population are actively enga…

Everything is not fine. The economic recovery is not quick. Stocks prices are controlled by opaque shadow forces and have little basis in reality.

Something that is grounded in reality is being able to pay down your home loan. Now that mortgage forbearance is expiring in the United States we in the mortgage industry are seeing a trend where pre-pandemic mortgage delinquency rates will not return to pre-pandemic levels for 24 months since the first wave of COVID. Compare this to 11 months of recovery after both Hurricane Harvey and Hurricane Irma. 24 months is the best case scenario right now. 2021 will be a slow and painful year for economic recovery. We still don't know if we will endure another shock.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#87

Post by waterhouse »

tyre wrote: post #73
dilippkumar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So. What do you propose? Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing. There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense. The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club. There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your bel…

Again, fine in principle. Doesn’t stand up one second in the real world. I agree that the ideal of every adult is being educated, taking time to check facts, having a critical mind. But that’s not realistic. It’s not where we are. And the facts of democracy are that uneducated people vote. People unprepared for the internet crazies. They’re not handling Fox News as entertainment or tabloids. They think it’s real. So,…

Flood the internet with more disinformation that is generally harmless but ends up being moderately embarrassing or inconvenient to those who believe it enough to act on it. Teach people by negative reinforcement to not assume what they read is true unless they've vetted the source.

Or: Have a counter-disinformation group that responds to political disinformation by creating more disinformation that points in the opposite direction.

To some extent all of the above is done already, organically. In fact, to the extent that Facebook et al. manage to hide the stupidest crap, that would tend to make people believe that what does stay up must be true (or, at least, must have passed Facebook's fact-checkers).

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#88

Post by j4nt4b »

seneca wrote: post #39
kache_ wrote: post #19

My dream is to work for the engineering divisions for these companies regarding automation around controlling the flow of information. It seems like such a fascinating problem

They're building a propaganda machine the likes of which Joseph Goebbels couldn't even have dreamed. It will certainly be fascinating, so long as you can ignore the unprecedented levels of damage it does.

Yup. And the worst part is that the techniques used are entirely outside our regulatory environment. The rules that constrain a journalist don't apply to the head moderator with their finger on the trigger at Facebook. Drive engagement today, suppress voters tomorrow, justify anything under the sun before you know it.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#89

Post by meekmind »

drawkbox wrote: post #33

Repeat after me, social media is not reality. Social media is the new tabloid salacious media. Yes it can be fun, entertaining, informative and educational, it can also be propaganda, misinformation, astroturfing, and a big high school like popularity contest where people are fake and narcissistic but probably insecure. The truth is the internet is teaching the biggest lesson ever in critical thinking and getting you…

Yes. This.

Thinking is hard and it requires training and conditioning to do. I'm not talking about what to think, but rather how to think.

It's an incredible convenience to delegate thinking, like the difference between spending 3 hours debugging some code versus having the answer readily available on StackOverflow.

Conversely, that convenience comes with a cost of a stunted intellect, where an individual can become so dependent StackOverflow that they are incapable of doing something new or difficult if it hasn't already been done.

Neither is necessarily better or worse, there are good arguments for the "hard way" and the "easy way". The important thing is recognizing the distinction and appreciating the value of both.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#90

Post by klyrs »

hirundo wrote: post #9

I don't trust Facebook or Twitter to distinguish disinformation from information. Why would anyone?

In general? Not really. On specific issues where there is overwhelming evidence and consensus coming from outside? Yes, it's good that they act on that.

It's true that absolute truths are hard to find. But absolute bullshit is much much easier to identify, and should be curtailed when it's doing harm.

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