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Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

reuters.com

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Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#71

Post by virgil_disgr4ce »

dilippkumar wrote: post #61
tyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

> So. What do you propose? Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing. There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense. The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club. There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your bel…

Pure ideology (how it ought to be) vs. immediate reality (shit is melting down in real time). It's easy to choose the former when you're not the one suffering.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#73

Post by tyre »

dilippkumar wrote: post #61
tyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

> So. What do you propose? Not GP, but I propose doing absolutely nothing. There have always been tabloid newspapers, underground conspiracy theory magazines and various AM broadcasting stations peddling all kinds of nonsense. The internet is just a new medium that’s joining the club. There is no substitute for critical thinking. There are always going to be people who will hold opinions that are anathema to your bel…

Again, fine in principle. Doesn’t stand up one second in the real world.

I agree that the ideal of every adult is being educated, taking time to check facts, having a critical mind.

But that’s not realistic. It’s not where we are. And the facts of democracy are that uneducated people vote. People unprepared for the internet crazies. They’re not handling Fox News as entertainment or tabloids. They think it’s real.

So, again, we can pretend that’s not happening. We can say, “well they shouldn’t be like that.” But that’s not reality.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#74

Post by vinhboy »

unethical_ban wrote: post #38
hirundo wrote: post #9

I don't trust Facebook or Twitter to distinguish disinformation from information. Why would anyone?

What is the alternative? Think you're the smartest person on the planet, unaffected by misinformation? "Feed me the libraries worth of bullshit from the Internet, and I will sort through this free market firehose to come to a logical, evidence based conclusion", hm? Have you ever read spam ads on Craigslist, fake comments on news sites, bots on Tinder, etc? There are patterns, there are foul motives, and with their i…

> Think you're the smartest person on the planet, unaffected by misinformation?

Thank goodness someone is calling this out other than me. Sites like these are filled with people who think they are smart don't need any help, and worse, expect everyone else in the world to be at their level.

I too am glad social media companies are finally waking up and taking action against this stuff.

Can you imagine a world where Google decided they wouldn't filter spam because it was too controversial?

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#76

Post by obviouslynotme »

hirundo wrote: post #9

I don't trust Facebook or Twitter to distinguish disinformation from information. Why would anyone?

Or anyone really. After 2016, I stopped watching and reading the current news completely. Everyone is lying to you now. I just wait 6 months before having an opinion on anything. That gives more than enough time for most of the rumors and mistakes to iron themselves out. As an unexpected side effect, I am happier than I have ever been. The world isn't going to end and I need to stop worrying that it will.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#77

Post by vorpalhex »

bilbo0s wrote: post #57
drawkbox wrote: post #33

Repeat after me, social media is not reality. Social media is the new tabloid salacious media. Yes it can be fun, entertaining, informative and educational, it can also be propaganda, misinformation, astroturfing, and a big high school like popularity contest where people are fake and narcissistic but probably insecure. The truth is the internet is teaching the biggest lesson ever in critical thinking and getting you…

"Let's hope that people see it as a lesson and not somewhere they can bask in their confirmation bias" I'm not sanguine. Be honest, which would you bet on happening in the majority of cases? I wonder sometimes if it's almost part of some fundamental psychology?

Do you believe the general public is better at filtering out misinformation than they were 100 years ago? What about 500 years ago?

It takes time but people do seem to get better at filtering out mis-information. I believe (and we have some evidence) that we can speed this up by helping teach critical dissection of articles and content and build the skill set to weigh sources.

The problem will never go away entirely. It's an arms race between people who want to get closer to understanding reality, and the people selling a story to some end (profit, power, etc). Like all arms races, sometimes one side lags behind but they usually adapt and leap ahead.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#78

Post by unethical_ban »

glial wrote: post #59
unethical_ban wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're substituting reality for your ideal. Sure, I believe we should have public schooling teach more raw critical thinking, rhetoric and civics. But you're not going to get the existing billion people in the online world, many of whom are some combination of hotheaded or ignorant of the wicked ways of misinformation, to suddenly "improve their informational diet". The people who are most likely to take that advice…

> Facebook and Twitter are taking what must be very careful, researched action Sorry but are we talking about the same companies? What track record do they have that helps you to believe this?

Because if they deleted 100% of the bullshit on their sites, tweet volume would be much lower.

My point is, they clearly aren't removing the majority of disinformed and disinforming nonsense. And I don't think every human at the two orgs are evil. If they say "Look, we found these patterns, these correlations, this forensic data that points at coordinated disinformation", my intuition is that they have done just that.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#79

Post by kfarr »

gralx wrote: post #35
aresant wrote: post #21

Disinformation content works because it drives huge engagement. Huge engagement pays the bills for FB and twitter. If we expect change we need an analog to a carbon or pollution tax for social. “Show me the incentives and I will show you the outcome.”- Charlie Munger

That it drives huge engagement is an indictment of public education.

Yes, on the other hand a lot of misinformation tactics hook into built-in human tendencies and requires more than just general education to identify and be immune.

Re: Facebook, Twitter dismantle global array of disinformation networks

#80

Post by tyre »

Karunamon wrote: post #27
tyre wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to combat disinformation campaigns? Look at what’s happening. The end results of allowing anything to happen on social media are not good. We’re not in a good place. So we can ignore that for rigid principles, or admit that those principles don’t stand up to the real world. No, no one hundreds of years ago had any idea about the scale or effect of social networks. Yes there was propaganda and brai…

Having principles hurts sometimes. Sometimes they require you to do things that are painful with the understanding that the alternative is even worse. I'd gladly take a world with disinformation over a world in which an unaccountable third party determines what is truth, and therefore okay to say. I can work around the first problem with some effort much easier than the second one.

I mean yes having principles hurts but leaving social media as it is doesn’t make you Rosa Parks.

We see a problem, we try to fix it.

They’re not unaccountable. This whole thing is about holding them accountable!

If they were completely unaccountable then they wouldn’t do any of this. Why is Facebook taking action against QAnon now when it hasn’t in the past year? Do you think they haven’t seen the polling data for the president, house, and senate races? They’re preparing to fight for their life as a conglomerated monopoly.

What does holding them accountable look like to you?

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