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VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

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Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#71

Post by michaelt »

piokoch wrote: post #58
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

I understand all this, Norway is able to print money as they sell oil (so others can freely emit CO2), and they don't really need those taxes, but this point: "Allowing holders of driver licence class B to drive electric vans class C1 (light lorries) up to 4250 kg (2019)" Is this a good idea? Is this save? There are C class driver licenses for a good reason, those heavy cars just behave differently on the road, there…

> Is this a good idea?

If you want electric delivery vans, yes.

Delivery companies that own their own vans and pay their employees hourly are in price competition with 'gig economy' delivery companies where the driver brings their own vehicle and gets paid per-parcel - so traditional companies are limited in their ability to absorb or pass on higher costs.

A diesel class B van with a 3.5 tonne weight limit, set up as a delivery van, can carry perhaps 1 tonne of cargo. In inner-city areas, where the density of deliveries is high, vans having a shorter range isn't a problem - but the vans will leave the depot at the absolute maximum weight capacity.

If electric vans have 20% less cargo capacity due to the weight of the batteries? That's a profitable business turned into an unprofitable one.

While there are some delivery companies (UPS for example) that use a lot of class C1 vans, and hire employees with the special licenses required, the supply of people with C1 licenses is much lower than the supply of people with B (i.e. car driver) licenses and the hourly wages are higher accordingly.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#72

Post by altacc »

seibelj wrote: post #18
shajznnckfke wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t most of Norway’s power come from hydro?

I don’t know, but Norway has profited immensely from oil and gas through their sovereign wealth fund, which is also used as a model for how other countries should establish social safety nets. If Norway was truly sorry, they should liquidate all of their oil profits and use it to invest in research to make a carbon neutral future. As it stands they ruined the environment and now will profit off the backs of the rest…

Norway's sovereign fund doesn't invest in companies which only carry out exploration & production, and invests in fossil fuel companies only if they also fund renewable research (although that may be token efforts for some). In all that's about 6% of the fund. It also invests a lot in renewable focused companies. Not perfect, but steps in the right direction and Norway is very aware of the contradiction in it's energy usage and fossil fuel production.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#73

Post by altacc »

082349872349872 wrote: post #44
reify_null wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has a decent charging infra, at least in the area where I'm at. It's been improving recently as well. Circle K (the petrol station chain formerly known as Statoil) has started installing chargers near where I live, so I would assume they are rolling this out nation wide. A lot of people have individual charging stations at their homes as well. I'm not sure of the state of charging stations in the smaller towns…

I had been assuming norway would have decent charging infra because I'd thought their parking lots already needed to be wired for engine heaters? Or are those only a swedish thing?

Some residential parking lots have these but they're not ubiquitous. They're often old or broken and not many people use them (modern cars are better engineered for winter starts).

However the wiring for these cannot handle what an EV car chargers requires, so they're useless for charging a car. For EVs typically new charging points are installed and this can be costly. It depends upon if the residents' association agrees to pay for them to be installed.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#75

Post by Qantourisc »

piokoch wrote: post #58
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

I understand all this, Norway is able to print money as they sell oil (so others can freely emit CO2), and they don't really need those taxes, but this point: "Allowing holders of driver licence class B to drive electric vans class C1 (light lorries) up to 4250 kg (2019)" Is this a good idea? Is this save? There are C class driver licenses for a good reason, those heavy cars just behave differently on the road, there…

Depends on why these C1 classes exist. But I reckon there is a difference between driving a heavy van, and driving a heavy loaded van. Or maybe they need to make a C0 ;) that has just enough of C1 to make it "safe" again.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#76

Post by lazyjones »

romanoderoma wrote: post #21
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

That's not true. EU has very strict policies about emissions. The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits. Also: in many EU countries fuel is heavily taxed In Italy 75% of the price to the pump is taxes. Definitely not free.

> The most immediate and obvious cost is not being able to drive those cars that do not respect the limits

Wishful thinking. You can still drive the most extreme of polluting vehicles as long as they're old enough, or as long as their manufacturer cheated at emission tests (many recalls are still pending for years).

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#77

Post by lazyjones »

lnsru wrote: post #8
seibelj wrote: post #4

The Norwegian EV incentives: No purchase/import taxes (1990-) Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-) No annual road tax (1996-) No charges on toll roads or ferries (1997- 2017). Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018-) Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2019) Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) Parking fee for EVs was introduced locally with an upper limit of a maxi…

I guess, there should be a good charging network in Norway too. 2 years ago I was looking for a car and no available chargers close to the house was a big show stopper. Closest one is like 0,5 mile away, that makes no sense.

> Closest one is like 0,5 mile away, that makes no sense.

Really, you can't walk 1 mile once a week to park your car at a charger?

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#78

Post by lazyjones »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #74
KingOfCoders wrote: post #51

Top 5 2020 Audi E-tron 8022 Volkswagen Golf 4971 Nissan Leaf 4451 HYUNDAI Kona 4183 Tesla Model 3220 https://elbilstatistikk.no/

Wow Tesla is not doing too great there. Wonder if that is supply or demand problem.

At the moment they aren't, true. Most likely a demand problem. But there are more Model S on the road in Norway than Model 3.

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#79

Post by yread »

foolfoolz wrote: post #24
Dylan16807 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand gas and diesel vehicles are effectively subsidized by getting to release CO2 for free.

not true, each gallon of gas has about 75¢ of state/federal taxes. this revenue is lost on evs

Completely burning one gallon produces about 10kg of CO2. Sequestrating it would cost around 5$ at today's prices (500$/ton).

Re: VW sees EVs making up 90% of Norway sales in 2021

#80

Post by tonyedgecombe »

kashug wrote: post #47
harrygeez wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really fascinating if true

It is also something a lot of people keep saying, but I have never seen proper documentation for it. So at this point I just think it is people repeating rumors. But it would be interesting to read a proper documentation of it.

Most of the reputable reports I've seen put the payback time at 12 to 18 months.
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