Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#261

Post by majormajor » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

belltaco wrote: post #234

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

This one is also a particularly terrible move: >“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” Copying from my comment below, this is likely to backfire. Since remote work has become acceptable and they already know the ins and outs of the job, many of these folks losing their…

> Since remote work has become acceptable and they already know the ins and outs of the job, many of these folks losing their visa will just be allowed to work remotely from India. This means the US economy will lose all the taxes and local expenditure in the economy like rent, food, travel, vacations, utilities, cars, home sales, etc. etc. And if that works out, the next hire may just be directly hired in India itself.

There's a big assumption in "Since remote work has become acceptable". Some companies are talking about making things permanent, others are already trying to get people back in the office.

And if the remote work swing is both big and permanent, then I think this is less likely a "backfire" situation and more of an "irrelevant" one. Companies looking to save money would hire in the foreign country regardless of the new rules.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#262

Post by mamon » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #235

mamon wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is by design. You don't want to issue visas to "people early in their career" - those jobs should go to Americans first. You only hire from abroad if there really is a shortage of specialists in some profession, and you want those professionals to prove their worth in their home country first, before allowing them to the US.

Well, it's possible for there to be a shortage of early-career specialists. Even now, with CS majors stuffed to the brim across the country, entry-level software engineering salaries keep rising and the big companies hire as fast as they can. I see your point broadly, but I think it's possible for that to be true and to also take university-grad H1-B employees.

But still, you want that shortage to stay there for a while, because that provides the incentive to US universities to create more spots in CS programs for US teenagers. If you go straight to hiring foreigners you are leaving US kids behind.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Post by tootie » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #44

I mean they will pay H1bs higher but still doesn’t make a company pay a us citizen higher. Maybe it will open up space for lawsuits based equivalent responsibilities and help the equal pay for equal movement. Even excluding H1bs we know there are people doing the exact same work for vastly different

It will put upward pressure on wages.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#264

Post by jedberg » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #206

There is a lot of political science research that speaks to growing xenophobia when immigration is unleashed. I understand the sentiment—I'm very pro-immigration—but with respect to domestic policy my primary goal is stability and faith in government. Personally, I like how my country, Canada, does it. Points based system that rewards multiple factors, including skills, employability, and fluency in English and Frenc…

I like the Canadian system too, but it was recently pointed out to me that the Canadian system is biased towards wealthy immigrants. Many of the points are things that take money to get (like advanced degrees and knowledge of French).

And then you end up with the "PhD taxi driver" problem too.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#265

Post by glennpratt » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

victor106 wrote: post #46

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small)

I don't see this exactly.

I have worked with multiple, brilliant visa holders. Many of them have moved on to bigger and better things. Presumably paying a huge amount in taxes for the privilege.

Most software developers I know are not making what I would deem suppressed wages, especially in the current conditions (and I don't have an SV job). Most firms I know would hire more people, but instead are contracting with firms and individuals outside of the US.

I suspect that's going to ramp up more.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#266

Post by verst » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #216

notJim wrote: post #67

The new rule is that H1B workers need to earn higher salaries relative to the distribution of salaries in their profession. The worker must make the 45th percentile wage, where previously it was 17th. Won't this primarily hurt people early in their career, or does it also take into account experience level?

I think this is by design. You don't want to issue visas to "people early in their career" - those jobs should go to Americans first. You only hire from abroad if there really is a shortage of specialists in some profession, and you want those professionals to prove their worth in their home country first, before allowing them to the US.

Exactly. The H-1B program is intended to be for highly skilled workers. Most folks early in their career (GP is probably thinking straight out of school) can hardly be considered highly skilled. And surely there are plenty of American recent graduates from similar programs as the recent graduate H-1B applicant.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#267

Post by avs733 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #189

Overall, I really support these changes. However, this piece really struck me as a big mistake: "Under the changes, an applicant must have a college degree in the specific field in which he or she is looking to work. A software developer, for example, wouldn’t be awarded an H-1B visa if that person has a degree in electrical engineering." Some of the best software engineers I know are graduate degree holders from neu…

It’s not supposed to make sense... it’s supposed to make the system unwieldy and frustrating.

There is no requirement that you assume good faith. It’s usually a nice (and calming) place to start, but when the evidence is to the contrary it’s reasonable to not give them the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#268

Post by runarberg » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #140

jedberg wrote: post #74

I agree 100% with you. My view is even more extreme, I think we should allow anyone who passes a criminal background check to be able to get a work visa, with no quotas. But barring that pipe dream, this seems like a good interim step.

How would you avoid seeing 500M indians/Chinese landing in America on the very next day? I think there is a middle ground between the disaster that are immigration laws today, and full open borders.

Bad scare call.

In the US, over 3 million Puerto Ricans are now allowed to migrate to the mainland US (say to DC). The borders are completely open to them. In Europe, similarly, around 20M Romanians are allowed to Sweden. But they don’t.

Just because people are allowed to migrate, it doesn’t mean they will. And in the case of an overwhelming majority, they won’t.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#269

Post by flurben » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #184

Cherian_Abraham wrote: post #117

“ Because those required wage increases take effect this week, existing H-1B holders looking to renew their visas might not qualify unless their employers raise their salaries accordingly.” This is really bad. Families are going to get told to leave. I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong.

> I’m surprised that there is no discussion on this thread about the impact to people who haven’t done anything wrong. Existing H-1B holders should clearly be grandfathered in, but those aren't the only people who have done nothing wrong. What about the would-be future H-1B holders who would have benefited from working while making less than the new requirements? In other words, the vast majority of people who are go…

American visa programs are run for the benefit of americans. Whether or not the visa holder benefits is incidental and not the point of US law.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#270

Post by KerryJones » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

While I'm definitely for preventing companies from taking advantage of the system and foreign workers by underpaying them, there seems to be many obvious and clear negatives to this (some are highlighted from others)

- Restriction of qualifying degrees - Contraction of months for contractors - Retroactively forcing salary increases - ... not explicitly stated, _more headache for doing H1B visas in the first place_

The H1B process is already heavily complicated and difficult and I've seen many strong candidates be denied because either the company they were applying to didn't find it worthwhile. Two personal friends had to leave the country after they had lived and worked here and found employment in other countries simply because it was such a headache.

It's also important to remember these are not the only changes that have taken place to H1B visas in this administration, and that it's already become more difficult. https://www.investopedia.com/news/impact-trumps-h1b-visa-cra...