Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#131

Post by nunez » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

ericye16 wrote: post #28

swashboon wrote: post #12

I worked with two developers in Boston who were DINK (Double Income No Kids) and they sold their Boston condo, moved to the Midwest (Minneapolis) and bought a six bedroom house on a lake and two jet-skis for the same price as their condo. Their cost of living went down tremendously. By their own standards they lost nothing compared to Boston (food/services/entertainment actually got better) except that they had to de…

What do two developers who are DINK need 6 bedrooms for? Genuinely curious.

1 bedroom for themselves, 2 offices, 3 cat rooms, one spare

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#132

Post by dredmorbius » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

1. Chicago: 8th overall US, 344,146 positions, 17.9% growth 2010--2018.

2. Detroit: 11th , 241,135, 37.2%

3. Minneapolis, 14th, 196,151, 17%

4. Kansas City, 24th, 100,782, 17.3%

5. Cincinnati, 28th, 82,088, 23.9%

6. Cleveland, 29th, 76,698, 16.3%

7. Indianapolis, 31st, 74,615, 24.2%

8. Milwaukee, 32nd, 71,755, 9.2%

9. Omaha, 40th, 37,508, 10.7%

10. Des Moines, 42nd, 28,693, 26.9%

TFW article is basically a textualised spreadsheet.

Not listed: wage levels, cost-of-living, industries, skillsets.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#133

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #66

throwaway713 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the compensation ceiling in these cities. It’s not the Midwest, but when I was searching in Atlanta for tech jobs to stay closer to family, the upper limit was about $150k, which I think was at Square. There are other non-tech companies that offer SWE positions (The Home Depot, Warner Media), but you will always be treated as a cost center and the career growth is limited. Meanwhile, SWE comp at FANG c…

FAANG is currently pretending that the high-pay given to high-quality Bay area engineers is due to the cost-of-living. I think once remote work really starts in full swing, we'll see wages in remote regions rise as companies realize that they are essentially negotiating with the same people, who still expect to be paid highly for their work.

The people making the hiring decisions are providing high pay because if they don't, then the person they want to hire has the option of working elsewhere for high pay. The people accepting the high pay are able to get the high pay because they have the option of selling their labor to someone else who will give them high pay.

Price is based on supply and demand curves, and cost of living isn't directly a causal factor. If it is true that FAANG can keep printing money while hiring people willing to accept lower pay, then that will happen but it will be because the FAANG's prospective supply of labor would have increased.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#134

Post by santaclaus » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

DetroitThrow wrote: post #116

santaclaus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty FAANG engineers minted from the top Midwestern schools - think CMU and other state schools - even if they rank behind the top schools on the coasts. CMU is a private school, ranked number 1 in CS, and is not in a Midwestern state! That said, there are lots of top CS programs in the Midwest.

Yeah, I meant to say CMU is a private school unlike the other leading Midwestern schools which are generally public. Pittsburgh is pretty far from the east coast, so it being in Pennsylvania doesn't really make it a 'coastal school' in my eyes, so I'll continue to lump it in with its geographic neighbors, though perhaps 'Rust belt' region is more accurate than Midwest for what I'm trying to b describe. What ranking p…

It’s currently tied for 1 with their other usual suspects in US News [1]. Of course these rankings are all a bit arbitrary, game-able, and should be taken skeptically :)

[1] https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-sch...

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#135

Post by 35fbe7d3d5b9 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

cvhashim wrote: post #77

rubidium wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8150-Birchfield-Dr-Indian...

Seems like a 20-25min drive into the city

There's lots of sprawl in cities like this, especially Indy. Everything is 20 minutes from everything else ;)

If you wanted a house in a more trendy, downtown neighborhood: https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1627-Fletc...

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#136

Post by throwawaygh » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #87

pratik661 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will find the engineering brain drain from any US region that doesn't (currently) have high paying tech jobs. I went to Georgia Tech and a significant number of CS grads from there moved to NYC, Bay Area, Seattle, or Austin.

When factoring in the cost of living, there isn't much of a pay difference. This is especially true once you have a family and have to care about living in a good school district.

I can rent a $4,500 apartment and still save, post-tax, at least $100,000 more than I could save post-tax anywhere in the midwest except maybe Chicago. Even including the value of paying off a mortgage vs. rent.

Tech jobs that pay more than $300,000 -- maybe $350,000 -- simply don't exist in large quantities outside major job markets. And the ones that do aren't the "trusted senior individual contributor with plenty of freedom to choose your projects" roles that exist in spades on the coasts.

Last time I job marketed in the midwest I couldn't even break $250 all-in, the vesting schedule was pure bullshit, and that role would have included a lot of political BS. Basically moving from blissful respected individual contributor to stressed out disrespected middle management, and all for a massive cut in post-tax savings.

I get why jobs are exploding in those areas, but they aren't the sorts of jobs I want.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#137

Post by peterwoerner » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

santaclaus wrote: post #76

DetroitThrow wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty FAANG engineers minted from the top Midwestern schools - think CMU and other state schools - even if they rank behind the top schools on the coasts. Top paying tech jobs tend to be found on the coasts though as well.

> There are plenty FAANG engineers minted from the top Midwestern schools - think CMU and other state schools - even if they rank behind the top schools on the coasts. CMU is a private school, ranked number 1 in CS, and is not in a Midwestern state! That said, there are lots of top CS programs in the Midwest.

It's in Pittsburg which is a Midwestern city. Even if the state has some coast.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#138

Post by sarora27 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

dexwiz wrote: post #17

Moved from the Midwest to the Bay Area, and tech comes in two forms: IT departments at major industrial firms (manufacturing, chemical, pharma, etc), or companies that are eventually bought by West Coast companies. The pay cap is much lower. Becoming a millionaire through stocks and wages is harder, but you will still be in the top 10% of earners overall. If you want to live in a mansion, the Midwest makes this dream…

> What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white).

Grew up (Indian-American) in the midwest and can confirm this is true with a large majority of people there.

If you don't look like them, they will be cordial to your face but then subtly make it very clear how they actually think about you.

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#139

Post by nunez » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

silexia wrote: post #80

Just wait till all the companies start to figure out that they can hire highly talented people in places like the Philippines or India for one tenth of the price of the Midwest.

They have, which is why on-shoring has been making a comeback for the last five years

Re: Hiring for tech jobs has increased more than 100% in these Midwestern cities

#140

Post by pratik661 » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #87

pratik661 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will find the engineering brain drain from any US region that doesn't (currently) have high paying tech jobs. I went to Georgia Tech and a significant number of CS grads from there moved to NYC, Bay Area, Seattle, or Austin.

When factoring in the cost of living, there isn't much of a pay difference. This is especially true once you have a family and have to care about living in a good school district.

I strongly disagree with the first point. The high salaries in the Bay Area and NYC filter out jobs where the marginal value of the labor is low. This also filters out low margin, low productivity businesses. This in aggregate also filters for higher skill employees on average. As a result, the chances of you working at a highly profitable (or fast growing) company is higher. The chances of you working with (and being mentored by) high skill colleagues is higher. Working at a growth potential or high margin company where you are a profit center, working with/collaborating with/being mentored by other (on average) high skill workers means you have a much higher earnings cap, even factoring for COL.