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.NET Orleans

dotnet.github.io

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Re: .NET Orleans

#241

Post by dragonwriter »

nullsense wrote: post #185
KurtMueller wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as good as rails? When I run a rails new command, I can setup my postgres connection, nodejs and webpack libraries, rails core library in one command. Rails has database migrations with conventions i like - the timestamp and a file name that represents the action to be performed against the database (e.g. AddNameToBlogs) which that can also be rolled back. I also really like the Rails restful router which is st…

>I want to love .net core - I really like F#. Any other rails dev out there make the transition to .net core? They're worlds apart. Rails is optimized for day 1, .net core is optimized for day 1000.

> Rails is optimized for day 1, .net core is optimized for day 1000.

Sure, that’s a standard argument for statically-typed kitchen-sink enterprise-marketed languages and platforms like Java/JVM and C#/.NET. But having come in to maintain things on day 1000 (or, in some cases 5000) for projects in such languages and, also, languages that are far less strict and have less features designed to require/support tooling, it's not been my experience that there's really that much of an advantage in practice.

Re: .NET Orleans

#242

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

cutler wrote: post #140
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LINQ for data operations > advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate I've used all of these. Rails' ActiveRecord blows all of them clean out of the water.

ActiveRecord surpasses all other ORMs in memory usage and slow execution, that's for sure.

If its memory usage and execution speed are deal-breaking bottlenecks for you, then you're working at a scale few people actually work at. Here in the line-of-business web app electron mines, I get to optimize for developer productivity and simplicity.

Re: .NET Orleans

#243

Post by reubenbond »

ToFab123 wrote: post #230
reubenbond wrote: post #23

I'm a core developer on Orleans. Feel free to ask any questions here, or on gitter: https://gitter.im/dotnet/orleans I gave a talk recently on how we use it at Microsoft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhgYlvGLv9c - the talk is very short and so it does not go into many details, but it gives an overview of some internal use cases.

Is Orleans based on Service Fabric Actors?

No, Service Fabric Reliable Actors are based on the Orleans API and model

Re: .NET Orleans

#244

Post by KurtMueller »

pjmlp wrote: post #157
KurtMueller wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as good as rails? When I run a rails new command, I can setup my postgres connection, nodejs and webpack libraries, rails core library in one command. Rails has database migrations with conventions i like - the timestamp and a file name that represents the action to be performed against the database (e.g. AddNameToBlogs) which that can also be rolled back. I also really like the Rails restful router which is st…

Is Rails as fast as .NET?

I guess I'm being selfish as a developer and thinking about my own ergonomics and dev experience. Is Rails as fast as .NET? Probably not, but if it can serve web pages in under 200ms, it's fast enough.

Re: .NET Orleans

#245

Post by KurtMueller »

manigandham wrote: post #150
KurtMueller wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it as good as rails? When I run a rails new command, I can setup my postgres connection, nodejs and webpack libraries, rails core library in one command. Rails has database migrations with conventions i like - the timestamp and a file name that represents the action to be performed against the database (e.g. AddNameToBlogs) which that can also be rolled back. I also really like the Rails restful router which is st…

I wouldn't rely on "setup everything in 1 command" as indicative of platform quality but .NET does come with the CLI and the unmatched Visual Studio, both of which have plenty of templates and tooling to get you started quickly. Everything you mentioned can be done with some packages and a few lines of code, and the entire framework does have some opinionated conventions but with much more freedom than Rails. The fac…

That freedom is/was overwhelming for me. With Rails, you can choose the relational database and the frontend libraries you want to use - that's really about it. There's a default path I can take if I want to get up and running quickly - it comes with strong opinions and sane set of defaults.

I think Microsoft is moving in the right direction though. Scott Hanselman has some .net core 101 videos out on Youtube that are good to get up and running.

Re: .NET Orleans

#246

Post by Serow225 »

x0n wrote: post #102
ryanjshaw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a fair amount of time doing a POC on Orleans but ultimately went with SF Reliable Actors due to some issues I couldn't resolve with a custom Streams implementation (Kafka subscriber/publisher). I really enjoyed the simplistic development model of Orleans compared to SF, and I want to give streams a second chance on a personal project, but I'm concerned that both Orleans and SF RA will be superseded by SF Mesh…

SF/RA is pretty much in maintenance mode. SF Mesh is dead. But Orleans 4.0 is going to make virtual streams custom data adapters easy to write (they say.)

That's always been my concern when looking at Orleans. Why can't Microsoft just be up front about the status of these things, so that people don't pick them for greenfield projects? What are the actual "live" platforms for running Orleans? I don't want to deal with running clusters and nodes, the closer to 'serverless Orleans' the better for me (Functions Durable Entities etc is not the same thing)

Re: .NET Orleans

#247

Post by aliswe »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #191
aliswe wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you haven't yet seen tge power of LINQ, it's not the chaining that is its point - it's the lazy evaluation. It's not at all limited to DB operations.

Every use of LINQ I've seen in .Net codebases has been to perform (more slowly) transformations or aggregations that should have done in the database.

Hello. LINQ isn't at all limited to LINQ-to-SQL. That is simply one of the numerous IQueryable providers, which is also possible to implement yourself by doing some expression parsing.

And for the record I hate LINQ to SQL.

Re: .NET Orleans

#248

Post by Nelkins »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #133
yyyuutt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent 10 years doing C# on a big system and love it. However it never got the momentum Java did so I've switched. I prefer C# over Java, I hate a lot of Spring attribute/factory/builder craziness, but Java has so much more wider support I would always choose it first now.

Same here. The Java ecosystem has almost everything you could ever imagine needing so it’s a safer bet. Maybe it’s not as shiny but it works. I don’t understand why MS doesn’t provide the ability to call Java code from .NET. It would open up a lot of libraries to the platform. Right now there are a lot of libraries that are first class in Java but have either no or only half baked .NET ports.

There was some plan to beef up their Java Interop library (currently used with Xamarin on Android) for more general usage for .NET 5, but I think it fell by the wayside. It'll probably happen eventually though.

https://github.com/xamarin/java.interop

Re: .NET Orleans

#249

Post by reubenbond »

Serow225 wrote: post #246
x0n wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF/RA is pretty much in maintenance mode. SF Mesh is dead. But Orleans 4.0 is going to make virtual streams custom data adapters easy to write (they say.)

That's always been my concern when looking at Orleans. Why can't Microsoft just be up front about the status of these things, so that people don't pick them for greenfield projects? What are the actual "live" platforms for running Orleans? I don't want to deal with running clusters and nodes, the closer to 'serverless Orleans' the better for me (Functions Durable Entities etc is not the same thing)

I think if you look at the consistent development history, you can use that as an indicator. Internal teams host it on Kubernetes (Linux), Service Fabric (Windows), and other places. The "Orleans at Microsoft" talk from August covers where teams are hosting it and how they're using it: https://youtu.be/KhgYlvGLv9c

Re: .NET Orleans

#250

Post by qz2 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #186
manigandham wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of higher-level language features requiring code duplication/generation, a lean standard library usually necessitating 3rd-party packages, and an utterly terrible module system and fragile tooling setup. Go is still far better than JS, but both are behind in modules, packaging and overall structure as compared to .NET. gofmt is nice though, more languages should have that.

For all it's other woes, I've had like 80% fewer issues with Go's tooling than .Net's. - Getting packages installed: trivial - Getting clean builds: trivial - Build and run works near perfectly In comparison .net seems designed to be used _only_ via Visual Studio: - Why does it re-download the packages each time I ask it to build? - Why does VS freak out sometimes when there's a terminal window left over from a previ…

So much this
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