.NET Orleans • Hacker News Board

Re: .NET Orleans

#111

Post by manigandham » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:23 AM UTC

mattferderer wrote: post #110

manigandham wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very fast, statically typed, clean language design with features like LINQ for data operations and fantastic async support, cross-platform, comprehensive standard library, advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate, easy deployment including docker/self-contained/single-file, build anything from web/mobile/desktop apps, best-in-class IDE and tooling, Blazor UI component framework running .NET in the browser, s…

I think the web front end could be a huge multiplier for them. It's going to take a few years for Blazor to catch up & have a chance to surpass the Node ecosystem but they have a good shot. They need more/better front-end specific tooling & a quicker feedback loop with hot reloading. There is some hope that hot reloading will make it in for next November's .NET 6 release. As Wasm & Blazor improve, I think it has the…

We're already building with Blazor using the server-side model and it's pretty incredible. We can get massive amounts of functionality built in minutes because it's just .NET, especially with all the existing backend logic easily shared and used by those components (via signalr).

The WASM mode is still a little rough but it's rapidly improving. Hot reloading will definitely make a big difference there when it arrives.

Re: .NET Orleans

#112

Post by yyyuutt » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:23 AM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

I spent 10 years doing C# on a big system and love it. However it never got the momentum Java did so I've switched. I prefer C# over Java, I hate a lot of Spring attribute/factory/builder craziness, but Java has so much more wider support I would always choose it first now.

Re: .NET Orleans

#113

Post by mattferderer » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:24 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #94

tmpz22 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coup de grace is functioning and sane server side rendering of ReactJS apps by c# applications. If Microsoft can make that easy and simple it will lead to a huge churn as many software companies replace less efficient nodeJS applications for that use case. Typescript will always have its placed client-side but there will be huge user benefits if we can have more and better server side rendering.

You can already do that by running Node with SSR (or any npm/js code) in .NET using Node Services [1] or use ReactJS.NET that packages everything for you [2]. But Microsoft won't officially do any more since they have Blazor which lets you run C#/.NET in the browser with both client-side WASM and server-side SignalR/websocket running modes. It's much more advanced and functional than React already. [3] 1. https://cha…

Sadly Node Services has gone the way of the Dodo bird. I'm not aware of any replacement.

https://github.com/dotnet/aspnetcore/issues/12890

Re: .NET Orleans

#114

Post by atombender » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

.NET is starting to look nice on Linux and macOS. I'm very disappointed that AOT compilation has apparently fallen on the wayside, though.

CoreRT was supposed to bring full AOT to C#, and that project is still in alpha with a disclaimer saying there are no plans to make it production-ready. LLILC, the compiler that targets LLVM, is also not production ready.

Anyone know what's going on?

Re: .NET Orleans

#115

Post by manigandham » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #98

manigandham wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do that by running Node with SSR (or any npm/js code) in .NET using Node Services [1] or use ReactJS.NET that packages everything for you [2]. But Microsoft won't officially do any more since they have Blazor which lets you run C#/.NET in the browser with both client-side WASM and server-side SignalR/websocket running modes. It's much more advanced and functional than React already. [3] 1. https://cha…

Very cool, thank you for sharing. > It's much more advanced and functional than React already. I’m sure this is true, but I can’t imagine there’s much of a community around it? The thing is with React you have a huuuuuuge community and ecosystem. You can share code with React Native. It’s so deep...

Well Blazor is new so React will have a bigger community, however there are millions of C# devs around the world and they can be instantly productive with Blazor so it shouldn't be that far behind, if at all.

While React's ecosystem might be huge, the quality trails off quickly and it's pretty messy even with the popular stuff, much of which is to add functionality that every app needs but isn't included in React itself. Blazor already comes with everything included, but can also use the full power of C#, the massive standard library, plenty of 3rd-party packages, and the tight integration with the backend.

I suggest looking at some of the Blazor presentations (by Steven Sanderson the original creator) to get a sense of just how quickly you can build: 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khn7sDUSEJM 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnBYmTpugz0 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLhoRyLxwAE

Re: .NET Orleans

#116

Post by bishalb » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

Thaxll wrote: post #87

tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

I'm pretty sure net core will remain for a long time in the enterprise world before making anything in the more open source / general public. It's 2020 I can't name a single server side known application built in net core.

https://customers.microsoft.com/en-us/story/tencent-telecomm...

Re: .NET Orleans

#117

Post by TheRealDunkirk » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #104

bovermyer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disregarding popularity, why should I switch to C#/dotnet from PHP/Go/Ruby?

Very fast, statically typed, clean language design with features like LINQ for data operations and fantastic async support, cross-platform, comprehensive standard library, advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate, easy deployment including docker/self-contained/single-file, build anything from web/mobile/desktop apps, best-in-class IDE and tooling, Blazor UI component framework running .NET in the browser, s…

> LINQ for data operations

> advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate

I've used all of these. Rails' ActiveRecord blows all of them clean out of the water.

Re: .NET Orleans

#118

Post by mnmr » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

atombender wrote: post #114

tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

.NET is starting to look nice on Linux and macOS. I'm very disappointed that AOT compilation has apparently fallen on the wayside, though. CoreRT was supposed to bring full AOT to C#, and that project is still in alpha with a disclaimer saying there are no plans to make it production-ready. LLILC, the compiler that targets LLVM, is also not production ready. Anyone know what's going on?

AOT is still on the roadmap, but has been pushed to .NET 6.

Re: .NET Orleans

#119

Post by manigandham » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #117

manigandham wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very fast, statically typed, clean language design with features like LINQ for data operations and fantastic async support, cross-platform, comprehensive standard library, advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate, easy deployment including docker/self-contained/single-file, build anything from web/mobile/desktop apps, best-in-class IDE and tooling, Blazor UI component framework running .NET in the browser, s…

> LINQ for data operations > advanced ORMs like EntityFramework and NHibernate I've used all of these. Rails' ActiveRecord blows all of them clean out of the water.

How so?

LINQ has nothing to do with ORMs, it's a generic querying/transform syntax that can operate on any kind of data structure, and it's expressiveness allows it to be seamlessly translated into SQL by EF and others.

Also it's hard to beat the static-typed nature of C#/EF and the fact that entities are just plain classes with no special needs or inheritance. They can be as "active" as you need them while the DbContext wraps everything nicely.

Re: .NET Orleans

#120

Post by kevingadd » Tue, Oct 06, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

mnmr wrote: post #118

atombender wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET is starting to look nice on Linux and macOS. I'm very disappointed that AOT compilation has apparently fallen on the wayside, though. CoreRT was supposed to bring full AOT to C#, and that project is still in alpha with a disclaimer saying there are no plans to make it production-ready. LLILC, the compiler that targets LLVM, is also not production ready. Anyone know what's going on?

AOT is still on the roadmap, but has been pushed to .NET 6.

And in this case "pushed to .NET 6" doesn't mean "not working" or anything, just not production-ready. The AOT implementation in Mono is robust and is being adapted for .NET Core, which requires changes and improvements. Not to mention the introduction of new platforms - supporting targets like Apple Silicon and WASM takes additional work.