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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is saying AP should be the safest thing ever, my comment certainly isn't saying that AP should be some sorr of super-human driver The problem is AP is actively making itself less safe than it would be without marketing oriented features even with no additional strengths . AP could the same collision avoidance and lane centering capabilities, but not allow the driver to engage them in "Autopilot" style. That's…

> The problem is AP is actively making itself less safe than it would be without marketing oriented features even with no additional strengths. That's a shame but I'm not going to worry all that much about it killing people if it's still safer than a basic car. > Or to put it another way, good enough is good enough for the safety features. But "good enough" is actually the most dangerous level of the convenience feat…

> That's a shame but I'm not going to worry all that much about it killing people if it's still safer than a basic car.

This doesn't make sense unless you just like senesless death.

It can be safer than a basic car and not kill people.

Or it can be safer than a basic car and kill people for the sake of marketing.

Since like I said, AP should not leave you feeling rested, full attentiveness is required, more than usual. If you're operating under the assumption you can relax a little with it active like a co-pilot or watcher, you're following for it's most dangerous trap.

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Also you realize basic cars have been picking up the safety features for a while now right?

The Toyota Corolla, the baseline of basic cars, has had LKA for 3 or 4 years now? And will warn a drowsy driver in case of excessive interventions.

It's sad again, because if anything Tesla is poisoning the well on these features since they're lulling people who don't even have the cars into a false sense of security.

AP marketing makes it seem like it can make a drive more relaxing (with Tesla salespeople using that exact phrasing on a test drive mind you) when the moment it does that, it's making you less safe than if it wouldn't pretend to be capable of that.

Now when other manufacturers intentionally omit continuous lane centering, it seems like an omission of a convenience, not an omission of a dangerously misleading liability to the safety of its users.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#422

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

Is there any incentive for the drivers to not just tape over this camera? As far as I see this information will almost certainly only be used against you. But then again, perhaps taping over the camera will be used against you as well.

Autopilot will be disabled.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#423
post #362

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

Inattentive ADHD doeant work the way you think it does.

As someone diagnosed with ADHD who sometimes looks in the rear view mirror more often than I should, I have to challenge you here.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#424

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

> It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. Don't see when they would ever be responsible for a crime legally, outside of being 'blamed' in dozens of national news headlines; the current legal landscape has continued to uphold that you are responsible for the car even when it's trying to drive itself. Even with Navigate on Autopilot, you have to continuousl…

Tesla & Co have used telemetry for PR to save face for their autopilot features, independent of the courts. If your car goes through a green light and gets T-Boned but the car flags you as being inattentive, it would be an interesting case, because without the data it would be clear that you were not at fault in any way.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children. How do all these hopelessly trapped families ever take their kids to things like medical appointments?

Are you honestly curious?

If so, there’s something of a sliding scale. Most of them take their car - their single car, that serves the whole family. When it breaks down, they lean on friends, family, and neighbors for help.

Those without a vehicle in the first place... don’t. I live in a town of It seems like there is a large disconnect between your perception and the reality of life for much of America.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#426
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children. How do all these hopelessly trapped families ever take their kids to things like medical appointments?

They own cars? 93% of American households do - and I expect if you took away a few large dense metros like NYC and Boston, that number would jump up to about 98%

In my experience, there’s even something of an inverse correlation between vehicle ownership and wealth. If you’re able to own a reliable vehicle, you tend to only own one. If you’re limited to buy-here-pay-here lots and such, families tend to have three or four in various states of repair.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#427

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

> These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might be flagged as inattentive during an autopilot crash and therefore at fault? I'm not understanding your point here, and you seem to contradict yourself a little bit. A driver with a disability that makes them inattentive ca…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#428

I love that the car is capturing this data. I would imagine Tesla engineers on the analysis side of this data are thinking "holy shit, look how much time our drivers are spending not paying attention at all, we need to do something about this." They need this data for regulatory reasons, anyway. At some point they need confidence to say how people are really (ab)using their self-driving tech.

"holy shit, look how much time our drivers are spending not paying attention at all, we need to do something about this." "Quick, man, contact PR straight away to write a belligerent, categorical denial! There's no time to lose!"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24697610

Well, that was a poorly-timed quip.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better buy a bike then. I’m glad that a small minority of luddites can’t hold everybody else back from making progress.

Not everyone would agree that active cameras pointed at you and phoning home in otherwise semi private situations is progress.

There’s an easy solution if you don’t like it: put a piece of tape over the lens. I’m not sure what y’all are doing in your cars but if you like to get wild then by all means do so, just take precautions.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#430
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better buy a bike then. I’m glad that a small minority of luddites can’t hold everybody else back from making progress.

I'd like technical progress to be in service of the user and all their rights, not of corporations that apparently value covering their asses above creating value for their clients. Legal measures ensuring the ability in all situations to physically turn off privacy-invading features, plus the right to repair and tinker, would be a good start. Forcing free software would be even better.

You absolutely have the right to use the power of your wallet to try to force those changes. However, again, the vast majority of consumers have voted with their wallets and they do not care for the same set of features that you care about. The vast majority feel that it would make the product experience significantly worse. What use do I have for a headphone jack when I have AirPods? What use do I have for a replaceable battery when it would make my device thicker, heavier, and much less pleasant to use?

It’s a good thing indefatigable contrarians like you don’t get to drive product decisions.

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