Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#291

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #282

Mirioron wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to the National Sleep Foundation, about half of U.S. adult drivers admit to consistently getting behind the wheel while feeling drowsy. About 20% admit to falling asleep behind the wheel at some point in the past year – with more than 40% admitting this has happened at least once in their driving careers. From: https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safety-topics/fatigued-drivi... Those are enormous numbers. I w…

This is a matter of degree. The start of this thread wasn't about someone who was driving home at the end of a long day at work and feeling a little tired. It was about someone who, by their own admission, had a history of dozing off at the wheel, and wanted to knowingly continue driving while unfit to do so. If we're being brutally objective here, road accidents are extremely expensive in purely economic terms. Obvi…

The start of the thread was actually:

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep!

I would say anyone that feels drowsy has a change of falling asleep. So 50% of the population should regularly not get behind the wheel, by GC's standard.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#292

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #250

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a bad take. If a system can help prevent accidents due to drowsiness, it's a net positive. There are plenty of reasons to be drowsy and still have to show up to work/commute: Maybe you have a newborn at home, and... Got a bad sleep. Or were woken up by a fire alarm. Or maybe you're just drowsy in the mornings, like me! I used to have a real easy 35 minute drive to work, on a single, straight road with a…

While this technology can help prevent some percentage of accidents under the existing regime, it will likely lead to some population of drivers putting more faith in the technology and becoming more reckless. It's hard to say if there will be more or fewer accidents as this becomes prevalent. I'm wary of it by default given the already prevalent incidence of DUI and sleepy driving. Those individuals seem likely to u…

Well humans can't get any better than they are now, and they're quite dangeous.

Computers are always getting better.

My money is on the computers.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#293

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:48 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #248

irrational wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! So, I should never drive? Not OP, but I experience the same thing. Driving just makes me tired. I've tried running A/C at full cold, caffeine, loud music, audiobooks, etc. Nothing helps. The strange thing is, outside of driving I don't get tired or want to fall asleep except at bedtime. I don't drive when I'm drowsy. Driving make me drows…

No, you should never drive. I appreciate that this sucks if you live in an environment that requires you to drive, but you are way too blasé about something that runs a decent risk of killing someone, and is absolutely not normal .

Driving in general comes with a decent risk of killing someone. You probably shouldn't do it either.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#294

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #243

simmanian wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever dozed off on the road? I ask because unless you've experienced it, it would probably catch you completely off guard as well. Sometimes the part of your brain that would normally make you aware that you're falling asleep is the first to go. I think this happens more while driving because you think you're concentrating on driving but really your brain is shutting off bit by bit until you're finally at a p…

The thing is, to be susceptible to that kind of effect, a normal adult -- meaning one without an underlying medical condition -- would already have to be very short of good quality sleep and/or doing foolish things like driving for several hours at night without taking a break. It is not normal to be susceptible to just dozing off at the wheel without realising like that. If you are in that position, you should be aw…

These are pretty absolute terms you're talking in with little corresponding evidence.

Monotonous activities frequently make people drowsy. This is not some medical condition, it is a common occurrence. Driving is often an acutely monotonous activity.

I know a huge number of people that get drowsy while reading books. Do they all suffer from the same "condition"?

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#295

Post by TylerE » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #285

Ancapistani wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children.

A very large number of people in the US have access to no public transit whatsoever - and as for sharing a car... that’s what they’re likely doing with their partner. One person uses it to go to work while the other is at home, probably caring for their children. How do all these hopelessly trapped families ever take their kids to things like medical appointments?

They own cars?

93% of American households do - and I expect if you took away a few large dense metros like NYC and Boston, that number would jump up to about 98%

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#296

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

adamsea wrote: post #132

ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Not if we are well-rested in general and healthy, and choose not to drive when we are tired. If we have a particular medical condition / issue then that is a different story. But folks don't randomly fall asleep (I think?) if they're getting sufficient rest and they're not already tired.

Demonstrably untrue.

Monotony can make you drowsy, regardless of how healthy you are or how much sleep you've had. And when this happens, it can catch you unawares even if you're looking for it.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#297

Post by ogre_codes » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #183

ogre_codes wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment in the other thread.

That other comment was posted after my reply, and your original comment said nothing about falling sleep after strenuous activity or large meals, so my comment still stands as a response to what you originally posted. Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep. What you are describing still suggests an underlying medical con…

> That other comment was posted after my reply, and your original comment said nothing about falling sleep after strenuous activity or large meals, so my comment still stands as a response to what you originally posted.

You made a bunch of assumptions based on a small comment. I didn't say I have narcolepsy or regularly fall asleep at the wheel.

> What you are describing still suggests an underlying medical condition or extreme indifference to the safety of others.

I find it fascinating that people feel they are capable of coming up with a medical diagnosis for a random person over the internet based on a few vague comments.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#298

Post by quicklyfrozen » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #258

quicklyfrozen wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree -- it seems like many of the responders here are unaware of just how much privilege they have. (Or maybe they're just not in the US.) You can't just take a nap you need to pick a child up or the boss expects you at the next shift or you'll end up with DSS/Police at your door, or unemployed. Is this right? No, of course not, but it's reality. Hell, many people are driving vehicles that are very unsafe, which a…

I empathize, but this is still rationalization. Having children is a choice, and sometimes people back themselves into untenable situations. You can't use children as an excuse to put the lives of others at risk. Realize what you're saying here. People driving cars they can't afford to upkeep are also risking themselves and others. Yes, it sucks. I empathize. I shouldn't be throwing stones. But if I'm a juror on a ve…

Almost no one should have children then, as very few of us have sufficient resources to guarantee we can support a child for 18+ years. Just having a child in the car is distracting and puts others at risk, but we accept that. And once the child is there, and it becomes a struggle to meet the schedule, then what? Give them up?

Obviously this line of thought has devolved pretty far from the original point as someone who can afford a car with driver drowsiness detection can probably afford to make different choices. It's just the idea that no one should ever drive when they have even a slight risk of falling asleep seems quite unrealistic, at least in the US.

Personally, I can find myself a bit tired by the end of the day. I've never felt at risk of falling asleep while driving, but I'm human, so can't say with certainty that it will never happen. Maybe a driver aid will lull some into driving when they know they shouldn't, but I still think it will be a net win (just like seat belts).

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#299

Post by fuzxi » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

pupdogg wrote: post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

PASSENGER_UNDER_DRIVER is making me think a lot harder than I expected to.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#300

Post by dontcarethrow2 » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #185

joosters wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's dangerous for you to drive, don't drive. It's as simple as that. If you can't stay alert enough for more than an hour, don't drive for more than an hour. If people think that #3 is acceptable, they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

Driving = Privelege Driving =/= Human right