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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#301

Post by znpy »

echelon wrote: post #112
ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

Yeah i wanted to write pretty much the same.

If you know you can't drive in a safe manner, you shouldn't drive at all.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#302

Post by xeromal »

hellisothers wrote: post #70
chrismeller wrote: post #29

I realize that this is still supposedly a “help us improve”/“data gathering” step, but I’m having trouble deciding how I feel about it. Yes, of course, safer drivers (whether automatic or fleshy) is a great thing, but this still hits that deep-seeded paranoia level for me. I mean, what if FaceID had been proven out the same way? The number of times I unlock my phone every day and the number of times I’m doing it some…

Yea a friend only drives older cars without ODB to avoid tracking anything (he’s pretty paranoid). But I’ll resist buying a car with a driver facing camera as long as I can, I don’t care how much they discount insurance premiums if you get one, it’s not worth it.

I mean you can just tape up the camera.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#304

Post by missosoup »

spike021 wrote: post #287
missosoup wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't even afford a car until after graduating from university. > I was walking or taking public transportation everywhere prior to finally getting a car. I had to afford a car in order to be able to get to work when I got my first job. Taking public transport would be a 4 hour journey in each direction (assuming I get to each transit point on time, assuming everything arrives on time). I couldn't afford the c…

I think this discussion is becoming rather pointless for the overall discourse about this singular topic, so I'll just leave with this. >Having climbed from societal rock-bottom to a decent position in the tech industry, my mind is constantly blown by the fact that the average techie thinks their life is anything like what the vast majority of this planet are dealing with. I'm not sure what your point is supposed to…

> The moment you begin endangering other people's lives is the same moment that backgrounds, poorly-disadvantaged or not, become meaningless.

Spoken life someone who never had to decide between rolling the 0.000001% chance dice on driving to work tired, and their kids going hungry or potentially getting taken away if they lose their job. People do what they need to do to survive and take care of their loved ones. People will absolutely risk their lives and those of others in order to protect their kids at all cost, even when facing much worse odds. That's a constant in life. No amount of moral posturing will change that. I'm not saying their actions are 'right', just saying they're an inevitable outcome of the society we have built.

Efficiently demonstrating my point - some people on HN live in a bubble of privilege and have no idea what real life is like for the vast majority of the population.

I'm just curious, with all the moral posturing - realistically, what would you suggest that people do when after a long shift at a blue collar job they realize they might be too tired to safely drive home. Do they sleep at their workplace? How does that transition into them needing to be back at work, showered, dressed, etc. by 9am the next morning? What are the actual logistics of this concept here?

And how do you reconcile all this moral posturing and the impact of banning drivers who experience this (up to 50% of the entire population of developed nations by some polling) vs. the fact that we now have a pretty cheap car technology that turns that 0.000001% dice roll into a 1e-20 one.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#305

Post by root_axis »

Silhouette wrote: post #221
root_axis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don't have that privilege. Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work.

Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work. And will it be easier to make those ends meet when you are dead, or paralysed, or locked up because you left someone else dead or paralysed? The arguments that a few people are making here, as if not driving while so tired you might fall asleep would cause some devastating loss to society and heral…

Very few people get behind the wheel thinking "I'm so tired I might die on the ride home", they think "it's just down the street, I can't wait to get home and pass out". Many times people feel totally fine when they get behind the wheel but don't start to feel tired till part way through the ride. You're holding people to a standard that doesn't jive with reality.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#306

Post by laumars »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #253
laumars wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not defending the GP but there are plenty of occasions where it’s unavoidable for some people to drive tired. Like families with young children and where adults don’t have the luxury of working from home nor good public transport links. Are they supposed to book a day off every time their child doesn’t sleep? But there are also measures one can take to mitigate tiredness while driving: winding the window down or turn…

> turning the AC down Wouldn't you want to turn it up? You're less likely to fall asleep if you're cold.

Yeah, I mean temperature rather than electronically. Though in the climate I’m from both would generally lead to the same drop in cabin temperature.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#307

Post by hnick »

8ytecoder wrote: post #134
ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Car fatigue is real. The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. It can happen to the best of us and when you realise it’s safer to pull to the side of the road. Unlike a DUI this neither voluntary nor reckless unless you ignore the warning signs and keep on driving.

Here in NSW we have the "Stop Revive Survive" campaign and Driver Reviver:

https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/stayin...

It is drilled into us that we should stop every 2 hours regardless of how we feel. You cannot trust yourself to judge as by definition your judgment is impaired when tired, it's best to just stop and grab a free tea/coffee if you find one of their setups or even just pull over to rest your eyes or walk around your car for a couple of minutes to reset.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#308

Post by quicklyfrozen »

Silhouette wrote: post #249
quicklyfrozen wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never had a bad night's sleep? Never had to make a longish unexpected trip because of a family emergency? Never had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet? In this case, if the person isn't able to get disability b/c of their condition, I can't fault them for doing what they need to survive. I don't like that it puts others at risk, and hope they are taking steps to reduce the risk. Detection technology that alerts…

You've never had a bad night's sleep? Never had to make a longish unexpected trip because of a family emergency? Never had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet? I've had to do all of those things. At some times in my life, I've had the first and last for an extended period. To my knowledge, I have never as a result driven in a condition that made me unsafe behind the wheel, though. Yours is another comment that talks abo…

If you have done those things, then you've accepted some increased risk of falling asleep, just like most of us have at one time or another. We're human and can't say for certain that falling asleep is impossible (or some other medical event won't happen).

We live with that risk, and some others have to live with more risk because of their circumstances. I'm more reacting to all the posts that no one should ever drive at all with even the slightest risk that they'll fall asleep, which is just an unrealistic ideal for most of us.

You know they let some people drive who have extremely bad eyesight--bad enough that that they can't read road signs? Yet they are allowed to drive, because not driving makes participation in our economy next to impossible.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#309

Post by jpambrun »

scarmig wrote: post #255
spike021 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that this comment is a plethora of words trying to win an argument how falling asleep at the wheel shouldn't be considered unsafe is incredible.

That's an ungenerous reading of the comment. They would agree that falling asleep at the wheel is unsafe. We've designed a system, however, that is set up such that it's bound to happen sometimes. Not everyone can call in to work and tell their boss "sorry, I slept badly last night, I'm not coming in" or order a $60 Uber to get somewhere on a whim. Moralizing at people is just virtue signaling.

If you can't drive safely; you can't drive. There is no middle ground. You may think it's fine to take a risk for yourself based on your costs/benefits, but it's definitely not fine to take a risk for others.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#310

Post by ksk »

kryogen1c wrote: post #212
echelon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. It's not. We're talking about people's lives. I've felt tired before and you know what I do? I nap in the parking lot. Because the remote chance I kill or maim myself or someone else is not worth the momentary discomfort. It's not fun, and sometimes people harass you, but it's far better than driving drowsy. > reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork…

> I've felt tired before and you know what I do? I nap in the parking lot. and this is exactly my point. you think being tired is exceptional, something you just "nap" and solve. you have clearly never been exhausted for months on end. I have. I have nodded off on highways, and worked with people that fell asleep at stoplights. not everyone gets to have 9 hours of sleep and then work 8 hours in a chair. > None of tha…

Don't try to normalize this behavior or generate sympathy for these idiots. People like you make my blood boil. I have had multiple family members almost killed (one suffered horrific brain damage) because of drunk/drowsy drivers. Seriously, screw you, bigly.

>this isnt about me or my opinion. there are literal millions of people that simply cannot do what you propose

What so we're in some kind of hunger games now? "I have to kill your family so that I can feed mine"?.

Some options: Stay home, stay hungry, get fired, take a lower paying job, go on welfare, go live in the jungle if you have to, Just.. don't kill my family.

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