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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#271

Post by pantalaimon »

scarmig wrote: post #262
aspaviento wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people, the other option is to stop driving to work and then be jobless and eventually homeless, make their kids go hungry, or go bankrupt. You say that as if there weren't any other options. You have public transport and you can share a car (and expenses) with someone who has your same destination. > For most people, it's a life and family destroying sentence. Dying in a car accident is literally a death…

> You say that as if there weren't any other options. You have public transport and you can share a car (and expenses) with someone who has your same destination. So, how does this work, exactly? So you set up carpooling with a coworker. And then one day you don't sleep well. Luckily enough, they're there to pick you up so you don't have to drive! ...but what happens when it's your turn to drive? You tell them, whoop…

I don’t fall asleep behind the wheel after just a night of mediocre sleep.

I think if you fall asleep while driving regularly there is a serious and systematic problem.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#272

Post by nmcfarl »

rightbyte wrote: post #152
orbital-decay wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, it's pretty uncommon for me to drive solo anymore so it's far less of an issue. There's almost nothing a person in another seat can do if you are asleep, even if they realize that in time (and that's a huge assumption). Speaking as someone who has unhealthy interest at failures, disasters, and their root causes, this type of attitude is super common, and always leads to disasters. Please seek medical attention…

I guess what he is meaning is that you can change drivers when you are not alone?

My guess is that he has someone to talk to. I've found that this makes get drowsy much less likely.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#273

Post by xedeon »

dosshell wrote: post #231
xedeon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close in terms of complexity. I used many of the "Driver Drowsiness" detection from Toyota, BMW and MBenz on my previous cars. They always had false positives, inconsistent and pretty rudimentary. What you're implying is akin to saying Nokia/Ericsson/Palm had smartphones before the iPhone 1 came along. Therefore the iPhone is a non-event. ️ The "hacker" mentioned in this article discovered these detection la…

Correction: atleast both seeing machines and smart eye has system in cars today that are more advanced. (GM, BMW etc)

I have actually tried BMW Smart Eye and GM super cruise. Comma.ai’s Open Pilot driver monitoring is far superior to both of those.

What OP was implying, is that the Tesla system mentioned on the article is on par with offerings from other OEMs from 14 years ago.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#274

Post by [deleted] »

missosoup wrote: post #185
joosters wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's dangerous for you to drive, don't drive. It's as simple as that. If you can't stay alert enough for more than an hour, don't drive for more than an hour. If people think that #3 is acceptable, they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection.

That's not how real life works. It's dangerous for everyone to drive and in the future manual driving will be as legal as riding horses on highways is today. People do potentially deadly risk reward calculus all the time. And of all potentially deadly things that people regularly do to crack down on, this one would have a pretty huge negative ROI for society. This issue impacts a non-trivial percentage of the populat…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#275

Post by scarmig »

pantalaimon wrote: post #271
scarmig wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You say that as if there weren't any other options. You have public transport and you can share a car (and expenses) with someone who has your same destination. So, how does this work, exactly? So you set up carpooling with a coworker. And then one day you don't sleep well. Luckily enough, they're there to pick you up so you don't have to drive! ...but what happens when it's your turn to drive? You tell them, whoop…

I don’t fall asleep behind the wheel after just a night of mediocre sleep. I think if you fall asleep while driving regularly there is a serious and systematic problem.

Drowsiness is very dangerous in itself, comparable to driving drunk.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#276

Post by pantalaimon »

irrational wrote: post #241
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! So, I should never drive? Not OP, but I experience the same thing. Driving just makes me tired. I've tried running A/C at full cold, caffeine, loud music, audiobooks, etc. Nothing helps. The strange thing is, outside of driving I don't get tired or want to fall asleep except at bedtime. I don't drive when I'm drowsy. Driving make me drows…

Have you considered talking with a doctor about this issue?

> The bad thing about it is I usually don't realize that I'm getting sleepy until after I've dozed off once.

This sounds pretty dangerous

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#277

Post by hnarn »

gravitas wrote: post #162
fudged71 wrote: post #46

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

> What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? You mention ADHD and Turrets; a leg-disabled person (e.g. paralyzed waste down) can still drive just fine, special hand-operated equipment is installed to a car to allow the hands to take over for the foot pedals. By design this driver may be looking down frequently at their controls (let's assume not everyone is a pro driver yet and knows them by heart) which coul…

Since you have both now misspelled the name of the neurological disorder, I feel obliged to point out that it’s spelled Tourette's syndrome.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#278

Post by missosoup »

spike021 wrote: post #266
missosoup wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one paragraph you've conveyed my point better than I could across multiple comments. This is the heart of what I was getting at. This, and the fact that the HN demographic, mostly being techies, seem to be a bit disconnected from what real life looks like to 80%+ of the population of the world. A few instances per year of not coming in to work due to poor sleep or having to order Uber wouldn't just inconvenicence…

That's quite a reach and a bad take. I've only been in the full-time tech industry for about 3.5 years. Before then I was working hourly jobs to make ends meet, including working half time or more while studying full-time in college, working during high school, etc. This so I could pay rent and tuition with minimal, if any, aid. I couldn't even afford a car until after graduating from university. I was walking or tak…

> I couldn't even afford a car until after graduating from university.

> I was walking or taking public transportation everywhere prior to finally getting a car.

I had to afford a car in order to be able to get to work when I got my first job. Taking public transport would be a 4 hour journey in each direction (assuming I get to each transit point on time, assuming everything arrives on time). I couldn't afford the car by a long shot. I ended up asking friends to lend me money and taking a loan that ended up with me paying like 3x the value by the time it was done. And the car I got was a total piece of shit which ended up costing multiples of its original price to keep operating, but that was the only way for me to keep the job and start climbing the life ladder, so I sucked it up.

You won the demographic lottery of being born in circumstances where you had the option to walk and take public transportation everywhere you need to. Most people have not won that lottery. I'm 0% SJW but I think you seriously have no idea of how privileged you are just through the random circumstances of how and when and to whom you were born, compared to the average person.

Having climbed from societal rock-bottom to a decent position in the tech industry, my mind is constantly blown by the fact that the average techie thinks their life is anything like what the vast majority of people on this planet are dealing with.

I'm not saying all this to win some victimhood points. I'm saying all this to try to get across to you that having the ability to catch PT or walk to everywhere you need to get to without it literally taking up 100% of your waking time is a huge privilege that you won in the random lottery of life. A privilege that you're not even acknowledging or aware of. Most people didn't roll as high as you in that lottery, so they take the 0.0000001% (or whatever) chance of death to drive to work in 1 hour each time they wake up tired, instead of the 100% chance of having a mental breakdown due to an 8hr commute time, etc.

And again, every state in every developed nation is fully aware of this, has researched this, and has crunched the numbers on this. And not a single one in the world has acted to prohibit it. Because they are all aware that doing so would result in more harm than good.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#280

Post by newacct583 »

echelon wrote: post #112
ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep!

I don't know about the upthread commenter or how common a thing it is for him/her. But this isn't feasible advice. It is never possible to drive perfectly safely, it's just not. Everyone makes mistakes in cars, and preventing them needs to be a defense in depth treatment and not an impossible prohibition like this.

Saying "people sometimes drive tired" (goodness knows I have) leads to "maybe a driver-facing camera might save lives".

Saying "You should never drive tired!" is just a recipe for blaming the driver and fixing nothing.

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