Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#211

Post by awad » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #190

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

The one thing I hate about most cars' active lane keep systems is that if you fall asleep and don't grip the steering wheel for a while, it does the most UNSAFE thing possible, which is to beep a few times and then disable itself, which would mean that you crash, 100% of the time. Yet other lane keep systems disable themselves below 40mph which means you crash as soon as the car slows down to that speed. What it shou…

The hazard lights go on, the car will slow down, and eventually pull over to the side of the road while Autopilot is disabled for the rest of the trip. Though the "disabled for rest of the trip" bit can be trivially worked around by shutting down and powering back on, this seems to be better than what you mentioned in immediately shutting down the system while still driving.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#212

Post by kryogen1c » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:46 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #191

kryogen1c wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't be driving. Period. what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork, working multiple jobs, caring for a newborn, caring for the sick. that covers millions of people, off the top of my head, without doing any research. and those are only the most black-and-white examples. more ambiguous cases include: driving from physical activity like OP men…

> what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. It's not. We're talking about people's lives. I've felt tired before and you know what I do? I nap in the parking lot. Because the remote chance I kill or maim myself or someone else is not worth the momentary discomfort. It's not fun, and sometimes people harass you, but it's far better than driving drowsy. > reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork…

> I've felt tired before and you know what I do? I nap in the parking lot.

and this is exactly my point. you think being tired is exceptional, something you just "nap" and solve. you have clearly never been exhausted for months on end. I have. I have nodded off on highways, and worked with people that fell asleep at stoplights. not everyone gets to have 9 hours of sleep and then work 8 hours in a chair.

> None of that is an excuse to get behind a many thousand pound piece of equipment and not be able to control it.

i'm glad youre so concerned about public safety, but those people are probably more concerned about eating and paying rent (or their infant, or dying parent, etc).

> I stand behind my assertion and hope you'll come around.

this isnt about me or my opinion. there are literal millions of people that simply cannot do what you propose (and millions more that will not because they dont share your opinion in the grayer areas), despite your objection that "None of that is an excuse". you seem to be confused about what options people have.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#213

Post by dheera » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

awad wrote: post #211

dheera wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one thing I hate about most cars' active lane keep systems is that if you fall asleep and don't grip the steering wheel for a while, it does the most UNSAFE thing possible, which is to beep a few times and then disable itself, which would mean that you crash, 100% of the time. Yet other lane keep systems disable themselves below 40mph which means you crash as soon as the car slows down to that speed. What it shou…

The hazard lights go on, the car will slow down, and eventually pull over to the side of the road while Autopilot is disabled for the rest of the trip. Though the "disabled for rest of the trip" bit can be trivially worked around by shutting down and powering back on, this seems to be better than what you mentioned in immediately shutting down the system while still driving.

That's awesome, at least the hazard lights and pulling over to the side of the road, sounds infinitely more safe than any other lane keep system I've seen.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#214

Post by muffa » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

So having worked in the space of driving facing cameras here are my 2 cents.

- Why use it? If you have the car driving autonomous and you want the driver to take over, you need to know if they are able to take over or not (sleeping)

- Placement The placement of the camera needs to be well below the head, otherwise you will not be able to fully see the eyes and also not be able to tell if a person has it's eyes open or not. This is more true for Asian people.

The placement of this camera shows a lot of the inside of the car compared with other OEMs. This is an interesting feat and could for example be used if you see the temp in the car incrase during parking you might want to turn on the AC if a child or animal is left in the car.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#215

Post by jowsie » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #196

kryogen1c wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't be driving. Period. what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say. reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork, working multiple jobs, caring for a newborn, caring for the sick. that covers millions of people, off the top of my head, without doing any research. and those are only the most black-and-white examples. more ambiguous cases include: driving from physical activity like OP men…

The 'you shouldn't be driving' commenters are people who are are either living in a privileged high-income bubble and don't understand what real life is like for most of the population, or are logical purists thinking about this issue in isolation without considering what real life is like for most of the population. Neither of those demographics has considered that their 'you shouldn't be driving, period' policy wou…

There's a big difference between driving when you are knowingly on the verge of falling asleep, and driving while slightly under-rested.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#216

Post by hnracer » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #163

hnracer wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should delineate between resources (which has a fiat value) and fiat money. I agree that fiat money can't make up for a human life, since if money is destroyed, the remaining money supply increases in value through deflation and no actual resources are destroyed. However I disagree that a human life can't be equated with resources. Would you destroy $10 billion of value/resources in the economy to save 1 person? I…

> Would you destroy $10 billion of value/resources in the economy to save 1 person? You can spin any arguments by framing them in such ridiculous scenarios. My comment is obviously in the context of people able to pay money to get rid of their personal responsibilities.

I was just demonstrating the absurdity of your comment. Taking things to the limit to demonstrate the absurdity of absolutist statements like the one you made is a perfectly acceptable thing to do and is not "spin". You said "no amount of money" and I took that at face value. If that's not what you meant then that's fine, there's no disagreement between us.

From reading the many other replies to your comment, everyone else was left with the same impression by what you said.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#217

Post by skykooler » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #159

pupdogg wrote: post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

I really want to know what HEAD_TRUNC in the actual symbol list means. I totally read that as "head truncated," as in the Florida man who perished in a Tesla while watching Harry Potter. Also, you could add more items like, DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_TOP.

I suspect it means "head truncated from the camera's viewpoint", as in there is something blocking the top of the driver's face (a brimmed hat, for example) that prevents the camera from figuring out where they're looking.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#218

Post by sangnoir » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

foobarian wrote: post #194

echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

One time I was driving between cities at 2am for unavoidable reasons, and was drowsy. At one point my brain interpreted the shifting red taillights in front of me as a game of Tetris. That's when I knew it was too dangerous to continue so I pulled over (rest stop was close by) and took a 15 minute nap. I found that powernaps like this are really effective at energizing me past browning out and letting me finish the d…

You need discipline to avoid inattentive driving more than advanced technology. You know roughly when you will get tired from driving: plan around that. Technology won't save you from poor judgement.

I do agree, power-naps are amazing to help you regain focus. One time I was driving and it was almost dawn, and I was desperately trying to force myself to reach the next town so I could get a room. I realized I probably wouldn't even make it that far and pulled over at the next rest stop and slept for 30 minutes. I woke up feeling more well-rested than I had any right to be.

When you start having micro-sleep episodes (your attention/memory has inexplicable gaps), or start experiencing sensory hallucinations, it's well past the time for you to rest.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#219

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

This is such a bad take. If a system can help prevent accidents due to drowsiness, it's a net positive. There are plenty of reasons to be drowsy and still have to show up to work/commute:

Maybe you have a newborn at home, and... Got a bad sleep. Or were woken up by a fire alarm. Or maybe you're just drowsy in the mornings, like me!

I used to have a real easy 35 minute drive to work, on a single, straight road with a few sets of lights.

I probably nodded off a bit while driving at least once a month, if not more. Especially at a set of lights.

I'm not a morning person!

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#220

Post by epistasis » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 8:54 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #112

ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

Unfortunately, if the poster lives in the US, there's a really high chance that laws have prevented suitable non-car transportation from being available.

There's a few places where one can live daily life without cars: a subset of really huge cities, some downtown areas of mid size cities. But usually we highly restrict housing from existing in such places, and we strict zoning prevents mixing of residential and commercial in areas that did not have it before these restrictions became prevalent in the last century.