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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#111

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure "5 hours of mountain biking", having post-ride food with buddies then driving home isn't considered a medical condition. Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep. Thus my comment below about taking a nap and having company on the return trip.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#112

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do.

You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk.

No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving.

Please don't get behind the wheel if you're drowsy.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#113

Hah, if the main barrier to autopilot for cars is liability and insurance, passive biometric monitoring of the driver is certainly one way to shift liability around. The real feature should just be a button that shifts insurance liability to Tesla for the period of the autopilot engagement and charges you a floating premium for it based on traffic conditions per mile/km while the autopilot is on. The real problem is…

Hm... are you suggesting that Tesla's motivation here might be to develop a logging system to defend itself against liability claims by demonstrating that the driver was not paying attention, as opposed to a system to take measures at the time to prevent the crash?

I would regard doing the former, while not the latter, to be deeply unethical, as, at least in my book, motive matters.

I am not saying thet I expect Tesla to do so, but it is possible that the incentives could be to do just that: for example, if it turns out to be impractical to produce an effective warning and intervention system that is not regarded as too intrusive by its customers. Don't take that route, Tesla. Nothing but either true (not necessarily perfect) self-driving, or effective monitoring and intervention, is acceptable.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#114

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

you should not be driving at all.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#115
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. Welcome to 14 years ago, which is when Toyota first introduced their DMS/DAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System More generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection

Not even close in terms of complexity. I used many of the "Driver Drowsiness" detection from Toyota, BMW and MBenz on my previous cars. They always had false positives, inconsistent and pretty rudimentary. What you're implying is akin to saying Nokia/Ericsson/Palm had smartphones before the iPhone 1 came along. Therefore the iPhone is a non-event. ️ The "hacker" mentioned in this article discovered these detection la…

False positives are a minor annoyance. False negatives are potentially catastrophic. So for this kinds of systems it makes sense to skew towards false positives. It is always a tradeoff.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure "5 hours of mountain biking", having post-ride food with buddies then driving home isn't considered a medical condition. Mostly just doing something physically tiring and having a full stomach, plus being in a monotonous 1-2 hour drive is a recipe for sleep. Thus my comment below about taking a nap and having company on the return trip.

I've done drives where for various reasons it's difficult to stay as alert as I'd like to.

FWIW - I normally have some kind of insomnia and take long time to fall asleep; but if I'm that tired, I can pull up into gas station or Tim Horton's (it's a Canadian thing:) and have a 30min power nap immediately. It's the only time I CAN have a power nap, but it works wonders.

I fully 100% support the general notion expressed here that if we find outselves in a risky position as a driver, we should do something to mitigate that risk. I don't think "don't drive" is always in every circumstance a achievable recourse though, so a power nap can mitigate risk significantly.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#119

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

Nonsense, this is almost certainly not a medical condition, this is normal biology. The constant attention required when driving makes everyone tired, during long drives especially, and if you're tired when you start driving from sleep deprivation or stress it's even worse. The important thing is that you recognize when you're tired and choose not to drive at those times. People get tired and need to sleep, usually, we can recognize it ourselves, it would be nice if technology could help us keep tabs on our tiredness automatically.

I pushed my own tiredness limits when working 40 hours a week at a job 40 miles away while going to college full time that was 20 miles away, when driving for my first job delivering equipment 3 hours away, spending all day at programming the equipment, and driving back home in a single 15+ hour day, and also when trying to commute to work after staying up most of the night with my infant. I've never fallen asleep at the wheel, but I've noticed many times that I'm struggling to concentrate, so I opened a window and found somewhere to pull over and take a walk. Being tired in those conditions is not a medical problem.

Being unsafe, however, is a choice. If and when you get too tired, you ought to pull over into a rest stop (that's what they're there for) and take a quick nap. The trouble is that whether or not you're getting tired is something you have to actively be checking (along with a million other things while driving), it's all too easy to let your brain transfer speed, lane centering, and navigation to your subconscious and not realize where you've been for the last 10 minutes.

If cruise control can help you keep your speed, adaptive cruise can do it while in traffic, lane control can help you check that, and a driver-facing camera can help you check for attention, that's a big help.

BTW I now work about 35 hours a week and commute just under 4 minutes each way - I worked hard to get here, but it's so worth it.

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