Sadly, one of the reasons I will never buy a Tesla. The lack of privacy concerns me.
You have to opt-in to send any of that to Tesla.
For now...
Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
21–30 of 455 posts
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop making of big deal (tm) out of every word that has even the flimsiest connections with race or racism?
I couldn't even figure out what he's talking about. People who want to see race will see race.. Facepalm
Not just people. Institutions, processes, and algorithms.
I can easily see an insurance company claiming the driver to be at fault based on retrieved car telemetry, which in turn was erroneous because the machine-learning algorithm was trained on certain faces. There was a flagged HN submission about Twitter consistently centering image previews on whiter faces recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24530968 .
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. You would need privacy guarantees about where camera data is going, but I think it would be worth the tradeoff.
> I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. Welcome to 14 years ago, which is when Toyota first introduced their DMS/DAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System More generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
If history is a teacher, Musk is going to invent it in few years.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. Welcome to 14 years ago, which is when Toyota first introduced their DMS/DAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System More generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
If history is a teacher, Musk is going to invent it in few years.
An actual few years, or a "fully self driving cars are a few years away" few years?
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Per the article: This is opt in. It seems like they're working on an on-board system to detect distracted drivers.
Per history: Tesla releases driver data whenever it suits them. See: every autopilot crash.
If you don't opt in, they shouldn't have the data to release. At least until they swap it to an opt out quietly.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#26> DARK Ooooof. This is of course a joke, but it's why you should be careful in naming. My guess is they mean "SHADOW" or "LOW_LIGHT".
Can we stop making of big deal (tm) out of every word that has even the flimsiest connections with race or racism?
It was a joke, not a real call-out. I was just making the point that as programmers we should be careful about naming things in code, because one day they might be taken out of context.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. You would need privacy guarantees about where camera data is going, but I think it would be worth the tradeoff.
> I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. Welcome to 14 years ago, which is when Toyota first introduced their DMS/DAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System More generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
Not even close in terms of complexity. I used many of the "Driver Drowsiness" detection from Toyota, BMW and MBenz on my previous cars. They always had false positives, inconsistent and pretty rudimentary. What you're implying is akin to saying Nokia/Ericsson/Palm had smartphones before the iPhone 1 came along. Therefore the iPhone is a non-event. ️
The "hacker" mentioned in this article discovered these detection labels on the Model 3/Y "selfie" camera:
BLINDED
DARK
EYES_CLOSED
EYES_DOWN
EYES_NOMINAL
EYES_UP
HEAD_DOWN
HEAD_TRUNC
LOOKING_LEFT
LOOKING_RIGHT
PHONE_USE
SUNGLASSES_EYES_LIKELY_NOMINAL
SUNGLASSES_LIKELY_EYES_DOWN
Maybe I'm missing something. But it seems like an apples to oranges in comparison to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but Comma.ai's driving monitoring feature is currently the only one in production that is comparable.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can we stop making of big deal (tm) out of every word that has even the flimsiest connections with race or racism?
I couldn't even figure out what he's talking about. People who want to see race will see race.. Facepalm
The _joke_ was that it mentions "DARK" as a method of detecting whether somebody is damaging a vehicle:
> CEO Elon Musk said that it would be used to prevent people
> from vandalizing cars when they are being driven
> automatically on Tesla’s upcoming self-driving robotaxi
> network.
The _joke_ was that if removed from context, somebody could insinuate that they are measuring whether people are black to detect if they are likely to damage a vehicle.
Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for
#29I realize that this is still supposedly a “help us improve”/“data gathering” step, but I’m having trouble deciding how I feel about it.
Yes, of course, safer drivers (whether automatic or fleshy) is a great thing, but this still hits that deep-seeded paranoia level for me.
I mean, what if FaceID had been proven out the same way? The number of times I unlock my phone every day and the number of times I’m doing it somewhere that the government/my employer/my significant other/a random hacker would find objectionable or lucrative to exploit... That’s with just me there (or an ex, or a former employee or prospective employer, or someone I met at a bar who turns out to be on some list...).
Turn this back around to the car I’m driving and it’s honestly slightly terrifying for me. It could be the next evolution of those devices insurance companies want you to plug into your OBD port so they can monitor how quickly you accelerate, take turns, etc. Except now Tesla (and whomever they decide to sell it to) know that when that innocent-seeming accident happened you seemed to be looking down, so now you’re completely liable for damages.
With the good comes the bad, but I’m terrified of the bad and the good doesn’t seem that much better than the current.