Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#341

Post by pyuser583 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

paulpan wrote: post #199

627467 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if you remove all other data points/context and only stick with the words "jobless" and "living with parents" I guess "so what" is a valid question. It would be a valid question for most issues where ones has barely any other information. But if you read a little about the price that japan (and this demographic in particular) has been paying and what they think about it, I'm pretty sure you won't find anyone…

Right, and I think it's the negative stigma of the former ("jobless") than the latter ("living with parents"). Multi-generational family cohabitation is nothing new and still the norm in many parts of the world. There's many advantages of it, though also carries risks (example is Italy's seniors exposure to COVID19). The "jobless" part is more cross-cultural in its negative stigma, on the expectation that adults are…

There is another problem with multigenerational housing: it can seriously reinforce inequality.

Living with your parents in a wealthy suburb is very different from living with your parents in a trailer park.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#342

Post by pyuser583 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #127

I feel like the "Jobless and living with parents" pejorative is missing the mark. Jobless -- So what? If a country has figured out how to provide for its people w/o jobs, so what? For example if we had perfect AI-robot slaves we'd all be jobless. Would it be a problem? Maybe we should ask people why they want a job, maybe what they want to do doesnt require one? "Living with their parents" - Again, so what? Much of t…

Can you show me the society that has used robots to replace the need for widespread employment?

The closest I can think of is Brunei and (previously) Saudi Arabia.

Both countries have massive oil income that is generated without regard to whether the citizens are employed.

They don’t use “robot slaves”, but hire foreigners to pump the oil - and do everything else.

Neither are particularly libertarian. They use religion as a way of imposing social discipline.

Saudi Arabia has been moving away from this model.

https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/brunei-spoiled-subjects-of-t...

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#343

Post by _jahh » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 4:13 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #337

bsanr2 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to start thinking about what happens when those people die and our incredibly permissive inheritance laws allow them to pass down literal trillions to... basically a bunch of 50, 60, and 70 year olds. Especially since a lot of that inheritance is going to be stakes in critical businesses that the heirs are in no way, shape, or form qualified to run.

Which businesses are actually critical?

basically any kind of distribution, trucking(food, medicine, everything else), electrical, water, sewer. manufacturing, agriculture, everything that lets you write your ____ question.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#344

Post by _jahh » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

pyuser583 wrote: post #341

paulpan wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and I think it's the negative stigma of the former ("jobless") than the latter ("living with parents"). Multi-generational family cohabitation is nothing new and still the norm in many parts of the world. There's many advantages of it, though also carries risks (example is Italy's seniors exposure to COVID19). The "jobless" part is more cross-cultural in its negative stigma, on the expectation that adults are…

There is another problem with multigenerational housing: it can seriously reinforce inequality. Living with your parents in a wealthy suburb is very different from living with your parents in a trailer park.

you're missing the cause for the effect, multigenerational wealth is the source of inequality. Most generally in the fact the 'west' has been pillaging 'the rest' for 400 odd years.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#345

Post by bleepblorp » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

squaresmile wrote: post #91

asdasdasdas5453 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On HN when people discuss CS/privacy/programming the conversation is very thorough and interesting. When the discussion is about economics (the topic I have studied at uni) most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic. If one wants a counter argument to "too many people for the economy" one can start here : https://www.jstor.org/stable/2523702?seq=1 "Using data from the Current Pop…

> When the discussion is about economics (the topic I have studied at uni) most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic. I think curating a discussion board to have knowledgeable discussion about many things is a really hard task. On many professional boards, discussions about other subjects are put into an OT corner. HN doesn't split discussions into topics so I guess expectation…

HN's issue with broad topic knowledge is considerably worse than just the difficulty of curation.

For example, I emailed the staff with regard to the prevalence of COVID-19 misinformation on HN and the response was that it is policy not to remove COVID-19 misinformation (including raving conspiracy theories) but also to allow flagging by the 'community' to remove posts pointing out that something is misinformation.

Tacitly allowing the platform to be used to give a mouthpiece to spread misinformation and allowing users to bully people for injecting some degree of factual reality does not encourage good discussion.

Facilitating knowledgeable discussion across a broad range of topics starts with attracting people who are knowledgeable in many areas, and that cannot happen in an environment where the administration allows mob bullying--through the very thin veneer of the downvote/flag system--of people who actually know things.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#346

Post by maerF0x0 » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

bbbobbb wrote: post #338

maerF0x0 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> self-worth from what we're worth to our society Is employer granted employment the only way to have value in a society? Personally I value motherhood far more than anything a woman could do in the workplace. Of course it's her choice what she wants to do with her life, but it's my opinion that there's little more important to a society than intensive investment in its children.

Just wanted to say that this seems like a very weird statement to me. I don't consider motherhood to be anything easy but valuing something majority of women can do over 'anything', however revolutionary, amazing or generally helpful a person can do at work seems almost insulting.

just so it's clear I'm not saying that women cannot do whatever a man can in the workplace. I'm saying women can do something that a man cannot "outside" the workplace -- that is gestate, and to some extent bond with and grow, a child.

And I know it seems like "Can't the contribute more at the workplace? Imagine a woman with IQ >= 120 What about research etc?" Well to the extent that desirable traits are heritable is to the extent we want/need these women to be mothers. And iirc the research indicates children grow optimally w/ their biological parents, both of them, and plenty of bonding time. This is in direct contradiction to the mother making deep commitments outside the home. Sadly it becomes a binary choice between being a fantastic mother or a fantastic contributor to a cause/research/business. I dont say this to denigrate anyone, but to recognize the real human limits of everyone involved.

IMO kind of like clean air/water or stable food supply we under estimate the importance of the task because of it being commonplace.

Remove the ability (or actuality) of having kids and much of our society would collapse in ~20 yrs time. All the people involved with making goods for, teaching, training, sports etc around children would be unemployed. Housing market would have a massive shift because who needs extra bedrooms? Politicians + news anchors would just Say "Women" insted of "Women and children" etc. It would completely disrupt society.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#347

Post by coolgod » Sun, Oct 04, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

muffinman26 wrote: post #232

coolgod wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do Chinese people even have dictionaries???

Of course they do. In fact, there are two main types of Chinese dictionaries: phonetic dictionaries organized by pronunciation and character dictionaries organized by radical.

Thanks for the reply, my question was intented to be rhetorical but my writing style wasn't the best. I was just trying to get JohnBooty to do a quick google search for Kanji/Hanzi dictionaries, after all how else could the east have developed such a sophisicated literary tradition without dictionaries.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#348

Post by pas » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 2:26 PM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #173

asdasdasdas5453 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On HN when people discuss CS/privacy/programming the conversation is very thorough and interesting. When the discussion is about economics (the topic I have studied at uni) most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic. If one wants a counter argument to "too many people for the economy" one can start here : https://www.jstor.org/stable/2523702?seq=1 "Using data from the Current Pop…

> most comments are just plain wrong and show a complete ignorance about the topic. This seems to be a problem inherent to many such forums on the internet. When the discussion is controlled by a certain subset of that population, usually via comments, submissions and voting, that subset tends to self-select and alienate alternative viewpoints. Participants are rewarded with a sense of validation for things that appe…

You have to become an expert to evaluate the expertise of "experts".

The workaround is to try to get better at using methods to pool the wisdom of "experts", to evaluate their claims based on external attributes (eg. looking at the journal that published the paper, looking at other claims of the expert, looking at the methods used to arrive at the claims, examining the used statistical methods, etc.), see also how prediction markets force "experts" to support their confidence with their money - and of course these markets are not infallible either.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#349

Post by pas » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #28

pmlnr wrote: post #4

Japan has the problems now we, Western society will be facing in 20 years. This has been true since the 80s, so it's be nice to learn from it, and not follow it.

I don't understand why Western countries are not incentivising people to have children.

Couples usually need a good prospect for the future to commit to having children. Many don't feel that the future is bright enough.

Re: Japan’s lost generation is still jobless and living with their parents

#350

Post by asdff » Mon, Oct 05, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #277

asdff wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you currently in the western world? I live in Los Angeles, which is a city that feels like it's trapped in the 1990s. Our highways were never finished and the city is fundamentally crippled as a result. We are building rail faster than any other city but it's still far too little and much too late, and what we do build is littered with compromises and further issues that hobble its utility, such as a failure to d…

The part about U.S. development is partially true. Idaho has been developing immensely, with Boise Area 10x'ing since 1930 and averaging 30% YoY population increase the past few decades.[0] If you go there, there's immense construction with frequent road closures and cranes everywhere. So while Idaho may still be dealing with the second-order effects of California's underdevelopment, I would struggle to find anywhere…

I'm willing to bet Boise is still not building nearly enough housing to put a dent in increasing cost of living.